bonsai-max
Shohin
Thank you, but the real priceless effort come from all the guys in this forum that with passion help all the neophytes like me....Excellent summation, you put it all together in one easy to find and follow method, thanks
Help for Black Pine backbudding
- Thread starter bonsai-max
- Start date
bonsai-max
Shohin
Hi, is it possible to give the fulvic acid at the same time of the fertilizer. Here the season is still wet and even if I keep the bonsai covered from the rain the soil never get dry if I give them in two times
Maiden69
Masterpiece
I'm not sure... I usually apply it separately.
bonsai-max
Shohin
Ok I will continue as usual, I put Sphagnum on the top for the first time so maybe is too early.
bonsai-max
Shohin
Some news buds are appearing on the old wood, so the routine is functioning I guess.
Just one question, I have some long candles that go outside the silhouette of the plant , should i cut it back at the end of the season or just remove the new bud on the top ?
Just one question, I have some long candles that go outside the silhouette of the plant , should i cut it back at the end of the season or just remove the new bud on the top ?
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Wondering what the whole tree looks like?
Doesn’t seem like styling is of high importance yet…
Also, are there robust backbuds on the branches to back up the shoots you are proposing to cut?
Finally, as an aside, it seems the fertilizer regime and perhaps the kelp foliar regime is a bit aggressive for a hot summer. Perhaps think about a plan to dial it back as the weather gets hot.
Cheers
DSD sends
Doesn’t seem like styling is of high importance yet…
Also, are there robust backbuds on the branches to back up the shoots you are proposing to cut?
Finally, as an aside, it seems the fertilizer regime and perhaps the kelp foliar regime is a bit aggressive for a hot summer. Perhaps think about a plan to dial it back as the weather gets hot.
Cheers
DSD sends
Maiden69
Masterpiece
My JBP are not complaining about the foliar feed in 100+ degrees right now. I did my last fertilizer about 2 weeks ago, but still doing kelp/fulvic foliar. B U T, all my JBP except three 1 year seedlings are in grow beds... maybe that makes a difference.
bonsai-max
Shohin
Mhhh i don't think this ABP have problem with fertilizing or kelp extract , but maybe this other scott pine that I have now some problems.....
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/silvester-scott-pine-need-an-advice.59365/post-1052004
I am still using the miracle grow once a week plus fulvic on the roots and kelp foliar also once a week but another day ( sun fertilize, wed fulvic/kelp).
This is the plant now, I want cut the new grow to have more backbudding, but not a mekiri as it's a ABP but a candle cut leaving some couple of new needles depending of vigor.
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Nice tree.
Given this tree is a single flush pine, one wouldn’t cut the candles now. It’s counter productive, they are hardened off.
That’s a spring energy management technique. The goal is to keep every growing tip remaining as productive as possible so each branch will want to back bud so pushing growth back and shoot selection can occur.
So the tree foliage will grow from this
JWP ………………………….and Mugo
…..
To this amount of foliage
JWP………………………………Mugo
…………
Shoot selection, given there are buds to cut back to, is fine now. I can see a couple areas that appear to need this work.
The tree does need to be styled again this fall to bring the foliage in. The tree‘s upper hamper seems to be grown a bit too far out for the trunk size.
Just a note, the two photos above appear to show wire that is cutting in a bit too far. Could be shadows, but check, just in case.
Anyways, just a thought.
Cheers
DSD sends
bonsai-max
Shohin
Which one ?
Yes I know that was my lack of experience, I have this ABP since 34 years now, it was a 5 years old plant when I bought but really start to manage in the proper way last two years.
Honestly it's a miracle that was survived
. So there is no conicity, leggy branch and a lot of cultivation error.....How you do it ? In fall winter cut back the new shots ? removing the old needles and leave some of the new grow ?
Thank you sir, tomorrow I will have a look
, any chance you can have a look to my other post ?https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/silvester-scott-pine-need-an-advice.59365/post-1052004
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
One area that caught my eye was the lower left, yet the 2D image can be misleading
Amazing for sure..,. Join the crowd on the mismanagement issue!Yes I know that was my lack of experience, I have this ABP since 34 years now, it was a 5 years old plant when I bought but really start to manage in the proper way last two years.
Honestly it's a miracle that was survived
Single flush energy is managed by candle pruning strong and medium to weak in the spring, as described before, then shoot selection to push back growth once the needles have hardened off.
Then add some fertilizer.
No needle plucking on single flush except for aesthetic …. Only removal of dead needles.
Is there a bonsai group by you? If so that’sa great place to get help.
Almost looks I like the candle was pruned off on the weak branch… an anyways once stressed things went from bad to worseThank you sir, tomorrow I will have a look
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/silvester-scott-pine-need-an-advice.59365/post-1052004
Try to leave weak candles alone. Shorten the strong and medium candles.
If this shoot survives, I wouldn’t touch it until it starts to show lots of energy and backbuds form. Pines sometimes just won’t respond to weak areas, preferring to save the energy for the strong.
Cheers
DSD sends
bonsai-max
Shohin
I didn't touch the candles this season, because it's a new bonsai and I don't know anything about the previous owner management. I did only a repot
I understand that, but on most branch I have only apical new bud. In this case, since the plant was weak i didn't do any candle pruning if i leave it next season the branch will be longer..... I was thinking if I cut the apical buds during the season or in autumn/winter the plant will produce back buds
The bonsai club near me is full and they don't accept new people at the moment
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
The Scot’s pine tree definitely has a few weaker areas from the image posted. This is normal, but likely can be addressed over a couple years of proper technique.
btw Thickness of foliage mass and individual candle sizes will tell you if an area or shoot is strong or weak. So it pays to look at your trees in spring, and after needle hardening, to get both a macro and a micro assessment of the relative strength of the respective areas of a tree.
It wouldn’t be my first choice to neglect candle pruning, but I can totally understand why you didn’t do it. Been there, done that!
Ok it’s just a weak branch. One could just leave it and see what happens.
The good news is one can post flush hardened prune. During this time one can:
1. take nodes down to two branches and
2. selectively reduce length, (I’d be a bit conservative ..not making hard cutbacks until you ‘know’ the tree’s‘ strong areas and response to pruning.)
3. go in the structure and prune out issues.
It’s not a wholesale license to universally prune back all tips though… and from what the Scot’s Pine image posted looks like the tree would only need to be selectively pushed back. Start by looking at the tree from a distance, selecting a strong area, then begin down the list.
Obviously one wouldn’t want to make any drastic changes at this point considering you are just “learning the tree.“.
Sad. Hopefully you are on their waiting list. Another idea if you know a member is to ask if they could provide you technique tips. That way you will have a local advocate…
Hope that helps
bonsai-max
Shohin
This year the new candle was so small that was almost impossible to prune, next spring we will see
Now we are talking about my ABP, that is the one in this post, not the Scott pine.
My idea is to do some small cutback on the new grows to make short and promote new buds back, leaving minimum 10 12 couple of needles.
This ABP is much more stronger than the Scott pine in the other post....
I am
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Scot’s? Hopefully it’s responding positively to the fertilizer regime you selected. I didn’t recall you using a base solid fertilizer like Osmocote Plus etc. If it isn’t responding strongly after the repot, it might be wise to consider adding some… at least until the tree responds well for a year of so.
The same post flush hardening pruning advice applies to the Austrian Black Pine.
Both are single flush trees.
cheers
DSD sends
bonsai-max
Shohin
Ok thank you, I will do some not aggressive cutback and cleaning.....
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Good luck!
Keep us posted this fall on the trees progress.
Cheers
DSD sends
Keep us posted this fall on the trees progress.
Cheers
DSD sends
bonsai-max
Shohin
In the meantime a new bud is appeared on old wood in a very weak branch... That's impressive, at least for me.
bonsai-max
Shohin
Hi, this is the black pine today.
Tbh I think that the plant is going better, next year I will do the energy control before the candle are opened and maybe cut back the new grows leaving 10 or more needle couples
We have different situation here after the treatment:
One big bud at the end
Two new buds in the branch that I cut as an experiment at the end of september:
One big bud plus a smaller one
New buds on old wood
Attachments
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
If I may interject - you’ve received a lot of good advice on how to encourage a JBP to backbud. Strong growth = better backbudding, so a good fertilization regimen, good soil, more needles, etc. are all perfectly good techniques to increase strength and, hence, backbudding. JBP can backbud on older growth, however, the older the growth, the less likely the backbudding. 2 year old wood, no problem. 3 year old wood, more difficult. 4 year old wood, even more difficult. At some point, you really need a miracle to get any backbudding at all, even if you have a perfect fertilizer regimen. IMO, where you really need backbudding is in places much closer to the trunk like these:
Right now you have long, straight primary branches without movement or taper and the main branching is all at the end of your primary branches. A tree with a thin trunk looks leggy with this kind of branch configuration. Also, long term, it will only get more leggy because there is little on the interior to cut back to. In my experience, these interior locations on older wood are very difficult locations on which to encourage backbudding. It may be that you will need to consider grafting shoots to these locations. Grafting is a common technique on black pine to produce new shoots on old branches, correcting leggy growth. I have trees with dozens of grafts, some of which are now the primary branches. I’ll probably graft several dozen more scions this coming spring - I graft almost every season.
S
Right now you have long, straight primary branches without movement or taper and the main branching is all at the end of your primary branches. A tree with a thin trunk looks leggy with this kind of branch configuration. Also, long term, it will only get more leggy because there is little on the interior to cut back to. In my experience, these interior locations on older wood are very difficult locations on which to encourage backbudding. It may be that you will need to consider grafting shoots to these locations. Grafting is a common technique on black pine to produce new shoots on old branches, correcting leggy growth. I have trees with dozens of grafts, some of which are now the primary branches. I’ll probably graft several dozen more scions this coming spring - I graft almost every season.
S
