Japanese Black Pine Help

[Bnsi_Trooper]

What is up my fellow bonsai enthusiasts. I am somewhat new to bonsai and have tended to drift towards Japanese black pine. I have two 5 year old (I think) JPB in pots that are healthy and growing. I bought 7 from a local and they have been doing ok; I think/ hope after wiring and transferring back in early July. I apologize if this has been answered in a previous thread but how can I speed up the growing and the thickening of the trunk on these JBP?? How long does it take for the needles to sprout? The person told me to fertilize them once a month until October. Any insight would be helpful!
PS I’m in SoCal

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Welcome Aboard BonsaiNut!

So there are many trees in those images. All are in different states. Best thing to do will be to create a sacrifice leader on top, give these trees decent sun, proper water and fertilize to the maximum possible consistent with good health.

The buds in those images appear to be second flush. One can expect these to elongate early next year and push needles in late spring…. This time will vary by location.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shibui]

How long does it take for the needles to sprout?

Pines have 1 growing spurt per year in most places. In some warmer climates we sometimes get a second complete flush but, in general, we get new needles once each year in spring.
It is possible to get a second flush of smaller shoots on JBP if we prune ( known as decandling) in spring or early summer but that's usually used to develop shorter shoots and smaller needles. It won't help thicken the trunk and will almost certainly slow thickening so best left to the later stages of development.
As @Deep Sea Diver has pointed out, the new shoots on these trees is just the new buds that will enlarge and open next spring so don't expect needles on those any time soon.

There's 2 ways to thicken a pine. One is growing sacrifice shoots - either trunk or low branches. The other way to thicken pines is patience and time. I suspect you'll be taking the first option as most of us do so start researching sacrifice branches and sacrifice leader to work out what to try.

SoCal is probably as warm, maybe even warmer than here. I find that JBP don't really shut down completely in winter so continuing fertiliser right through winter gives increased growth in spring. I fertilise young, developing pines every 2 weeks through the growing season but cut back to 4-6 weeks through winter.

 

[moriel]

SoCal is probably as warm, maybe even warmer than here. I find that JBP don't really shut down completely in winter so continuing fertiliser right through winter gives increased growth in spring. I fertilise young, developing pines every 2 weeks through the growing season but cut back to 4-6 weeks through winter.

I have a question for you @Shibui Should people in warm areas like SoCal withhold fertilizer in summer? The reasoning behind this is that trees will enter a semi dormancy state with temperatures higher than 100F for extended periods, so fertilizer would be wasted and could cause salt buildup in the soil. I really appreciate your input since you're talking about first hand experience, which is immensely helpful in advancing our bonsai projects!

 

[horibonsai]

The best way to thicken the trunk is to put it in the ground. You can also increase fertilizer to every two weeks and use liquid if you are doing that. You will have elongated needles, but once you get to the thickness and height you want, you can slowly back off the fertilizer and needle reduction, decandle, and the second flush will start to reduce needle length.

 

[Bnsi_Trooper]

The best way to thicken the trunk is to put it in the ground. You can also increase fertilizer to every two weeks and use liquid if you are doing that. You will have elongated needles, but once you get to the thickness and height you want, you can slowly back off the fertilizer and needle reduction, decandle, and the second flush will start to reduce needle length.

What liquid?

Pines have 1 growing spurt per year in most places. In some warmer climates we sometimes get a second complete flush but, in general, we get new needles once each year in spring.
It is possible to get a second flush of smaller shoots on JBP if we prune ( known as decandling) in spring or early summer but that's usually used to develop shorter shoots and smaller needles. It won't help thicken the trunk and will almost certainly slow thickening so best left to the later stages of development.
As @Deep Sea Diver has pointed out, the new shoots on these trees is just the new buds that will enlarge and open next spring so don't expect needles on those any time soon.

There's 2 ways to thicken a pine. One is growing sacrifice shoots - either trunk or low branches. The other way to thicken pines is patience and time. I suspect you'll be taking the first option as most of us do so start researching sacrifice branches and sacrifice leader to work out what to try.

SoCal is probably as warm, maybe even warmer than here. I find that JBP don't really shut down completely in winter so continuing fertiliser right through winter gives increased growth in spring. I fertilise young, developing pines every 2 weeks through the growing season but cut back to 4-6 weeks through winter.

Thank you

 

[SeanS]

What liquid?

Thank you

Liquid fertilizer, like fish emulsion or similar

 

[Shibui]

What liquid?

Any liquid fertiliser.
I still have not met a pine who could read. They don't even seem to be able to make out the pictures on the fertiliser container so they don't really care where it was made or from what. All that is for the humans. The trees only care about nutrients and all liquid fertiliser has nutrients so it doesn't matter what you choose to use. Just make sure you follow the directions on the packet.

I have a question for you @Shibui Should people in warm areas like SoCal withhold fertilizer in summer? The reasoning behind this is that trees will enter a semi dormancy state with temperatures higher than 100F for extended periods, so fertilizer would be wasted and could cause salt buildup in the soil. I really appreciate your input since you're talking about first hand experience, which is immensely helpful in advancing our bonsai projects!

I don't think my pines enter semi dormancy in summer. They do complete their spring growth flush then there does not appear to be much happening but that's not the same as dormancy. Same thing happens in winter where nothing appears to be happening but the trees are not actually fully dormant. Our trials here show that pines that get winter fert definitely grow more the following spring so they must be utilising that fert somehow.
If you feel that the trees may not be using all the fertiliser in summer you could cut back a bit as I do for winter. There's always going to be some fertiliser waste, even in the height of spring growth as some will leach out of the pots with watering. Wasted is not the same as salt build up though. Salt build up is much more about watering - or lack of. We need to ensure enough water flowing through the soil to leach out waste products as well as drawing in fresh air.

 

[moriel]

If you feel that the trees may not be using all the fertiliser in summer you could cut back a bit as I do for winter.

Thank you for your reply This is exactly what I do, I cut back the fertilizer rate in August and January but I do keep fertilizing the whole year except for that period after decandling, which the original poster does not need to worry about.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Totally agree. Even in a more northern climate our trees actually show growth when fertilized in winter. Also cut back in July and August.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[horibonsai]

What liquid?

Thank you

The liquid fertilizer for growing trees: kelp or fish emulsion, humic acid or molasses, and Miracle-gro. Mix this in a fertilizer injector, and I apply this to any trees I'm growing. Try this or a variation and see what works for you.

 

[clem]

I apologize if this has been answered in a previous thread but how can I speed up the growing and the thickening of the trunk on these JBP??

If you want bigger trunk quicker, the way you wire and twist the trunk is also important : if you make some pronounced/spiral curves, with a bigger wire, when the trunk grow, the curves will fuse, and you'll get a bigger trunk. You can also let the wire on the trunks, because the trunk will swell, grow and swallow them.

A YT video in French, but you can understand just seeing the images ->

Even more important : if you are very impatient to have a big trunk tree, i advise you to buy a JBP (in a nursery or on the internet
) with a bigger trunk. You can also show us the pre-Bonsai candidates for purchase, so that people here advise you what is the best trunk to buy/choose