Hello I recently
- Thread starter Austin
- Start date
I do understand these facts, and I'm not strictly using them however it does seem from my posts thats how I intend to achive this, also I know it takes YEARS for that to happen under harsh conditions, I have a number of 15 year of crab apples that where only 2 feet tall until last year, meaning for 14 years they where stunted due to lack of water I belive they hit the water table this last summer and shot up to about 12 feet now, we planted them along the quarter mile long driveway when we moved to this property.
the harsh environment statment comes from an experiment I did this summer with a refrigerator and some CFL's and 2 four inch fans 18 inches from the soil that ran 16 hours a day with the lights. it kept a solid 75-87 degrees and approximately a 30 mile an hour wind, they where young flowers I dug up i nthe spring from the garden no idea what they where just random young plants from my mothers flower bed, they lived for 4 months befor I need the fridge to winter over some of the plants, seeds and cuttings I dug up in the fall.
I know with trees it would take 5 years or so to have the desired effect.
the point I was trying to make is that tree in particular have a ton of built in responses to survive almost every situation, all wintering plants can survive roughly for 2 years without winter given enough light and water befor they perma dormant. meaning there have been two year stints where the northern hemisphere has not gotten winter over the lifespan of the plant and this happend often enough for the plants to need to adapt.
I just feel if anyone actually read half of what I posted they would all ready have the picture of what I'm attempting, I started with understanding the basics, then went on to this wintering project, and I presented the information on the wintering project assuming everyone what aware of the basics and the fact that basics can't be ignored hence why they are basic (base)
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
daygan
Chumono
Yes but that's because Ficus can't live out in the cold!
and neither can leafed-out broadleaf trees when it's 20 below!
daygan
Chumono
meh.. just do it. show everyone the pictures when it's over
You have noticed how the second post of nearly every thread here that doesn't start with pictures is a request for pictures, right? Words are cheap. It's all about the visual aids 
Nothing new was ever discovered by the group who stood back and chanted "nay"... It could be an utter failure, and/or you could learn something new and exciting in the process. Why not try?
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
and neither can leafed-out broadleaf trees when it's 20 below!
If they weren't indoors in the first place it wouldn't be an issue
If they weren't indoors in the first place it wouldn't be an issue
that is entirely true, but remember this is a test phase, to see if keeping them indoors 2 months out of the year, one month to simulate fall and the triggering of dormancy, and another month to simulate early spring and bud break, with a two - three month long cold snap between the two is even viable be for I go and build something on a large scale.
winter averages 5-6 months here.
loosing these trees will not be a huge loss, I did this knowing I would lose a handful regardless in fact I expected to have more losses by now, and I wanted to see how well a tree dug up in the fall would bounce back, turns out as long as you get enough of the root system with it it will no problem.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"and I wanted to see how well a tree dug up in the fall would bounce back, turns out as long as you get enough of the root system with it it will no problem"
Big, wrong assumption...At this point making this leap is premature at best. Make it NEXT winter...or even better the following. This kind of thing really can't be measured in weeks or days.
Big, wrong assumption...At this point making this leap is premature at best. Make it NEXT winter...or even better the following. This kind of thing really can't be measured in weeks or days.
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october
Masterpiece
**edit**
Austin... You could save yourself a lot of years of failed experiments and dead trees by researching and talking to Jack Wikle. I originally thought it was Jerry Meislik. He is a master of growing bonsai indoors and has been doing it for probably about 30 years. He has already done the research, the trial and error and has reached concrete conclusions. He will probably be able to tell you the outcomes of all your experiments. In doing so, you will save some trees, save yourself time and can start studying bonsai so you can begin actually doing bonsai. I believe Jerry has books, articles and much information available on his sites. In my opinion, he is very respected when it comes to this subject. I would like to mention that I believe he grows trees inside because he has to. This is due to his location.
Rob
Austin... You could save yourself a lot of years of failed experiments and dead trees by researching and talking to Jack Wikle. I originally thought it was Jerry Meislik. He is a master of growing bonsai indoors and has been doing it for probably about 30 years. He has already done the research, the trial and error and has reached concrete conclusions. He will probably be able to tell you the outcomes of all your experiments. In doing so, you will save some trees, save yourself time and can start studying bonsai so you can begin actually doing bonsai. I believe Jerry has books, articles and much information available on his sites. In my opinion, he is very respected when it comes to this subject. I would like to mention that I believe he grows trees inside because he has to. This is due to his location.
Rob
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Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
KennedyMarx
Omono
If I'm not mistaken, all of Jerry's trees are tropicals and don't require a real dormant period.
october
Masterpiece
The secret to growing very healthy tropicals is a dormant period, though not an extreme one. I think, if I remember reading his information correctly years ago. I believe he keeps his tropicals in the 50's for a couple/few months out of the year. However, you would have to ask him about the exact temps. Also, I know that he has experimented with juniper and azalea over the years. He would be able to tell you what his results were with those species.
Rob
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Jerry Meislik grows tropicals indoors. The guy who does the non-tropicals indoors is Jack Wikle. You can google him to find some information, I don't have the website at hand (but believe there is a link from Jerry's site).
Jack had a number of trees at the Rochester Exhibition in 2010. One of his Shohin displays featured a boxwood, juniper, firethorn, cypress, and 2 cotoneasters. According to the exhibition album, all had been grown indoors under fluorescent lighting year round. I've been told that he has some junipers that have been growing this way for many years (decades, perhaps).
Not saying it's easy, and not all plants will work...but some non-tropicals can be grown indoors if you get the conditions right.
Chris
Edit to add - link to Wikle article: http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html
Jack had a number of trees at the Rochester Exhibition in 2010. One of his Shohin displays featured a boxwood, juniper, firethorn, cypress, and 2 cotoneasters. According to the exhibition album, all had been grown indoors under fluorescent lighting year round. I've been told that he has some junipers that have been growing this way for many years (decades, perhaps).
Not saying it's easy, and not all plants will work...but some non-tropicals can be grown indoors if you get the conditions right.
Chris
Edit to add - link to Wikle article: http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html
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october
Masterpiece
daygan
Chumono
I honestly think I read one of his books..the name is so familiar, and yes keeping tropicals around 50 degrees at night (the book recomonded 70 days and 50 nights for two or three months for a tropical to have it's version of dormancy I believe)
interesting junipers indoors..my pine tree is still doing the best out of them all next would be a willow cutting then my tiny oak, I believe I am drowning or not watering the bigger oak..the moisture meter says it's wet, but it's gettin crispy on the lower leaves, I read even root disturbance could cause this. I don't beleve it's heat damage because the leaves where never close enough to the lights to get burnt. it may even just be the after effects of the chemical burns from some pesticide.
I say that because I literally ripped them out of the ground, the root systems on them are more pitiful looking than the tops, yet they took.
I am honestly learning what kills the plants at this time so i do not make the mistake in the future, don't get me wrong I'm not out to kill them but there is a steep learning curve to bonsai verus planting a garden I have to learn the ins and outs somewhere.
Being I plan on building a raised bed greenhouse this spring to move some seedlings into to thicken up for a couple years I kinda wanna give myself what advantages I can with this trial run indoors, I'm starting with the hard parts and working my way down to the "easy" stuff. Having had a number of learning disabilities and dyslexia to overcome I found I need to learn things a bit different, I also have a hard time just reading something and taking it for fact without at least having a limited experience with the subject matter.
now I know no one who grows bonsai, no one who has tryed it indoors (I will try and find time to look this stuff up I have almost a million parts on order in the factory so it might be a month till I can dig into anything again) All I have had available to me is the interweb, and the interweb told me it was doable but extremely difficult.
I know I know double post...
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