Hello I recently

[daygan]

So, Austin, if I'm understanding correctly, your goal is to shorten the wintering period for your trees and consequently lengthen the growing period.

First, let me tell you my first reaction: If you are able to control temperatures just right such that your trees enter dormancy later than natural outside temperatures would mandate and come out of dormancy earlier, you're going to be dealing with outside temperatures that are still considerably cold (and therefore dangerous) for trees that have thrown off their wintering defense systems and are ready to run full-steam into growth processes that are designed for milder weather. This could result in some serious problems for your trees if you don't have excellent sollutions in place to continue to provide them with the needed light, air flow, warmth, and a number of other natural factors that their regular growth patterns are designed to work in concert with.

It sounds, however, like you're happy with experimenting, and who am I to stand in the way of that? I think, at the very least, your refrigerator experiment (provided everything else goes with scientific precision) would result in less sunlight available to your trees during a time of year when sunlight (we're talking light level, not hours) is already considerably limited in your part of the world. That could seriously affect growth and tree health.

These are my initial thoughts, but that's not to say that you shouldn't go ahead with the experiment. I, for one would be curious about the results, and encourage you to go ahead and do it, and let us all know what happens.

 

[Austin]

So, Austin, if I'm understanding correctly, your goal is to shorten the wintering period for your trees and consequently lengthen the growing period.

First, let me tell you my first reaction: If you are able to control temperatures just right such that your trees enter dormancy later than natural outside temperatures would mandate and come out of dormancy earlier, you're going to be dealing with outside temperatures that are still considerably cold (and therefore dangerous) for trees that have thrown off their wintering defense systems and are ready to run full-steam into growth processes that are designed for milder weather. This could result in some serious problems for your trees if you don't have excellent sollutions in place to continue to provide them with the needed light, air flow, warmth, and a number of other natural factors that their regular growth patterns are designed to work in concert with.

It sounds, however, like you're happy with experimenting, and who am I to stand in the way of that? I think, at the very least, your refrigerator experiment (provided everything else goes with scientific precision) would result in less sunlight available to your trees during a time of year when sunlight (we're talking light level, not hours) is already considerably limited in your part of the world. That could seriously affect growth and tree health.

These are my initial thoughts, but that's not to say that you shouldn't go ahead with the experiment. I, for one would be curious about the results, and encourage you to go ahead and do it, and let us all know what happens.

this october I brought in trees from outdoors that had allready gotten thier required dormancey, they woke up in 2 weeks to a month and have been growing sense under artificial light infront of a window (a pine tree has survived inside under the provided conditions for 3 months) I am able to facilitate the "inbetween time" the transition between going outdoors by providing the plants moderate airflow and sufficent sunlight I have allready proven this is a viable option, all the pictures I posted erlier in the thread (i know some don't work but one of the links will get you into my image shack photo gallery where all the pictures are saved) have been grown soley indoors over this past winter.

the case would be built with lighting and this inbetween time in mind.

the reasoning behind this case is I have a number of trees I am interested in growing, but cannot survive in my native environment making it essential that I find a way to winter them according to thier habitat. most native trees I am fairly uninterested in aside from oaks weeping willows and birch wich will be harvested come the spring thaw this year by either digging up or by air layer or cutting.

still following me?

but at hte moment I'm learning how to kill or not to kill trees lol had to start somewhere

 

[october]

this october I brought in trees from outdoors that had allready gotten thier required dormancey, they woke up in 2 weeks to a month and have been growing sense under artificial light infront of a window *****(a pine tree has survived inside under the provided conditions for 3 months)**** I am able to facilitate the "inbetween time" the transition between going outdoors by providing the plants moderate airflow and sufficent sunlight I have allready proven this is a viable option, all the pictures I posted erlier in the thread (i know some don't work but one of the links will get you into my image shack photo gallery where all the pictures are saved) have been grown soley indoors over this past winter.

the case would be built with lighting and this inbetween time in mind.

the reasoning behind this case is I have a number of trees I am interested in growing, but cannot survive in my native environment making it essential that I find a way to winter them according to thier habitat. most native trees I am fairly uninterested in aside from oaks weeping willows and birch wich will be harvested come the spring thaw this year by either digging up or by air layer or cutting.

still following me?

but at hte moment I'm learning how to kill or not to kill trees lol had to start somewhere

Just thought I would mention something about the pine. You said it has survived for 3 months inside. Are you aware that pines take about 2-3 months to die? For example, if your pine begins to die. Chances are that it was something that happened maybe 2 months ago. Also, it can be a slow process for the next couple of months as well.

Rob

 

[Austin]

Just thought I would mention something about the pine. You said it has survived for 3 months inside. Are you aware that pines take about 2-3 months to die? For example, if your pine begins to die. Chances are that it was something that happened maybe 2 months ago. Also, it can be a slow process for the next couple of months as well.

Rob

I did have one die after a repot..it was in far too big of a pot and it died in less than a week, but like you say it takes a while so it could have jsut died from drowning in the big pot.

however I also repotted the living specimen at the same time and it is thriving it's doubled in fullness sense the repot. it was also this weekend under watered and wilted almost dead looking...but bounced back in a day, occasionally I see it look weak and I breathe on it and it looks much better an hour or two later (I do this maybe twice a week) but it would appear I'm doing something it likes it actally opend more buds sense this last weekend even.

Thanks for the heads up on the three months to die bit, I don't know if it's completely true as when they are dormant they have a different shade of green, aswell as when they start to die (I have killed two pines so far one on accident one intentionally as it had a fungus growing on it's root system) the one with fungus I set in a glass with no potting mix or water and it took two weeks for it to appear dead.

any thoughts?

 

[october]

Not sure exactly what you are asking. I can offer you some information on pines. Pines cannot live indoors. They are powerful trees when outside. Some pines actually survived the atomic blast in Hiroshima during the world war because they were shielded by a wall. They can survive atomic blasts and for centuries. Yet, when you bring them inside, they die within 4-5 months. I would compare it to a great white shark. Probably the most feared predator of the sea and a survivor. However, they cannot survive in captivity. No matter how equiped the aquarium is.

Many times, pines are dead and we don't even know it. You may keep watering them etc..then one day, it doesn't look so good. Unfortunately, the tree was probably dead for awhile.

You must understand that you can do whatever you like, but keeping a pine inside is just a death sentence. It is not really a question of if, but when.

Pines require specific work at specific times. Improper pruning of a pine can lead to death or death to certain parts of it. Improper pruning can also lead to a tree that might take years to correct the mistakes, if ever. Repotting at the wrong time or too often can also lead to death. Older pines should only be repotted when needed or every 4-5 years. That is if they require repotting becasue of poor drainage or progressing training purposes.

As far as the fungus. Sometimes you will see Mycorrhiza on the root system of pines. This is usually considered a good thing.

I hope this was helpful.

Rob

 

[daygan]

Austin, I'm curious, other than the pine, do you have any other trees that are currently growing under your indoor lighting setup and out of dormancy?

 

[Paradox]

Austin, no offense to you but you've stated that you've proven your methodology. What do you consider to be the evidence of such? Have you kept trees alive for 3 or more years using this method for all of those 3 years or did you just do it for this year and now, 3 months later the plants are still alive so you declare it "proven".

I'm a scientist and proof usually constitues reliable repeatablity over a period of time with mulitiple examples.

Humans can survive one night without sleep and go for days without adequate sleep. However prolonged lack of sleep will cause stress and eventually lead to death. Trees aren't much different except that they work on a scale of years not days. They can survive one year of sub-optimal dormancy and live for many years provided they get what they need the next year. Also plants can repond to stress by pushing out lots of new growth. Its a survival mechanism they have. In essence we illicit this response when we stress trees by leaf trimming/deleafing deciduous trees and bud plucking/trimming conifers.

Its an interesting idea but be careful before you consider this to be proven just yet.

 

[Austin]

Austin, I'm curious, other than the pine, do you have any other trees that are currently growing under your indoor lighting setup and out of dormancy?

all of them have been growing sense october, if you look at the offsite links (a hand ful of them will bring you to my image shack gallery where you can slideshow all of my plants pictures)

I know the links arn't hte best I've never befor had this problem with image shack but if you really wanna know it's in the links I posted, they have all been growing indoors sense october

oaks pines weeping willows and a tree I cannot identify

 

[Austin]

Austin, no offense to you but you've stated that you've proven your methodology. What do you consider to be the evidence of such? Have you kept trees alive for 3 or more years using this method for all of those 3 years or did you just do it for this year and now, 3 months later the plants are still alive so you declare it "proven".

I'm a scientist and proof usually constitues reliable repeatablity over a period of time with mulitiple examples.

Humans can survive one night without sleep and go for days without adequate sleep. However prolonged lack of sleep will cause stress and eventually lead to death. Trees aren't much different except that they work on a scale of years not days. They can survive one year of sub-optimal dormancy and live for many years provided they get what they need the next year. Also plants can repond to stress by pushing out lots of new growth. Its a survival mechanism they have. In essence we illicit this response when we stress trees by leaf trimming/deleafing deciduous trees and bud plucking/trimming conifers.

Its an interesting idea but be careful before you consider this to be proven just yet.

I've not only wintered trees in a fridge but have been studying my method for the past four months, I'm not the only one to use it and all information says it works, it has also worked in my short term trial.

and as a matter of fact a tree can (not that they all ways do) survive for 2 years with inadequate to no dormancy be for it will die due to lack of dormancy.

my research refferances I started to catalouge

Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
10/31/12

to me
http://www.chiefrivernursery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/zones.jpg

http://www.thehoneytreenursery.com/Japanese-Maple-Seedlings.php

Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
10/31/12

to me
http://porkyfarm.com/hardwood.asp



On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.chiefrivernursery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/zones.jpg

http://www.thehoneytreenursery.com/Japanese-Maple-Seedlings.php

Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
10/31/12

to me
https://www.musserforests.com/browse.asp?m=1&p=a


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
10/31/12

to me
http://www.bonsaihowtos.com/trees/japanese-maple-bonsai.html#h0-1-5-tolerance-to-climate

AWESOME resource up there for tree information

http://www.bonsaihowtos.com/bonsai/hardiness-zones.html

zone map with max negative temps

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/bougainvillea

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/jade-tree

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/olive

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/serissa

Tropical and sub tropical trees

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/juniper

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/zelkova

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/trident-maple

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/wisteria

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/maple

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/dwarf-pomegranate

wintering trees

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/blog

list of typical bonsai trees

http://www.bonsaiempire.com/care/overwintering

resource


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/1/12

to me
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/dormancy.htm

dormancey articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormancy

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/forestbiology/htmltext/chapter6.htm

typically 1000-2000 hours of dormencey


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/1/12

to me
http://forestry.about.com/od/forestphotogalleries/ig/Dormant-Winter-Tree-Gallery/

dormant tree pictures

trees accumalate "chill hours" between 44-30 degrees F (or 6.67 and -1.11)

http://northernwoodlands.org/outside_story/article/how-do-trees-know-when-to-wake-up

http://www.raintreenursery.com/Chill_Hours.html

chill hour map we are in between 1200 and 1500

The Utah Model says that
1 hour of chill below 34 F. is worth nothing
1 hour at between 35 and 36 F. gets 1/2 a chill hour
1 chill hour is given at 37 to 48 F.
49 to 54 F. gets only 1/2 a chill hour
55 to 60 F. get no chill hours
Above 60 is all negative chill …..eeekk!!!

http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/USDAZones.htm


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/14/12

to me
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/SecretsImp.html

http://www.bonsaimary.com/growing-bonsai-trees-indoors.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/21/12

to me
http://www.forestry.umn.edu/prod/gr...restry/documents/asset/cfans_asset_259604.pdf

Paper Birch air layer test


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/24/12

to me
http://worldseedsupplydotnet.blogspot.com/2009/09/germination-instructions-for-ginkgo.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/24/12

to me
http://www.bonsailearningcenter.com/IMAGES/PDF Files/Soils.pdf


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/28/12

to me
http://www.arborday.org/Shopping/Trees/all-trees.cfm


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/30/12

to me
http://www.beltramiswcd.org/trees.html

http://www.arborday.org/Shopping/Trees/all-trees.cfm


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
11/30/12

to me
http://toptropicals.com/catalog/uid/ginkgo_biloba.htm


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/2/12

to me
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....225932444186870.49466.225921714187943&type=1


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/11/12

to me
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HydroStone-Expanded-Clay-Pellets---10-liter-bag.asp

http://www.htgsupply.com/Category-FoxFarm-Complete.asp


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/16/12

to me


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/16/12

to me
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/405596890/LED_Plant_Strip_Grow_Light.html?s=p

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/led-plant-grow-light-strip.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/16/12

to me
http://www.environmentallights.com/led-plant-grow-lights.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/16/12

to me
http://www.environmentallights.com/led-plant-grow-lights.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/16/12

to me
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=...8&bpcl=39967673&biw=1024&bih=705&pf=p&pdl=300

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/LED-grow/p/sm/1049609824.htm

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/LED-grow/p/sm/1053941224.htm

http://www.ehydroponics.com/led-grow-light-kessil-led-grow-lights.html

http://www.ehydroponics.com/agroled-t8-led-tube-red.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/19/12

to me
http://www.ebmpapst.com/en/products...act-fans/axial_compact_fans.php?s=SPANN_AC_DC


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/24/12

to me
http://store.bonsaiterrarium.com/collections/plants


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/27/12

to me
http://www.bhg.com/gardening/houseplants/projects/top-plants-for-terrariums/#page=2

http://www.pollywogsworldoffrogs.com/text-html/planting-vivariums.html

http://www.ccenassau.org/hort/fact_sheets/a117_terrariums_jan03.pdf


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/27/12

to me
http://kuromatsubonsai.com/broadleaf-bonsai/rosemary-bonsai/


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
12/31/12

to me
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/leafsize.htm


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
Jan 3

to me
http://home.hiwaay.net/~fjw/bonsai1.htm


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
Jan 10

to me
http://www.gardening-tips-idea.com/Trident-Maple-Bonsai.html

http://hort.ufl.edu/database/documents/pdf/tree_fact_sheets/ulmpara.pdf

http://www.burpee.com/gardening/content/gygg/growing-zone-information/growingzoneinfo.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
Jan 16 (9 days ago)

to me
http://www.gardenality.com/Plants/258/Trees/Trident-Maple.html


Dice Rolla <dicerolla@gmail.com>
Jan 16 (9 days ago)

to me
http://www.elkoep.com/products/rela...thermostats/cover-ip-65/thermostat-tev-2-372/

here is a list of my refferances and places I have purchased products from or intend to purchase products from, many links are scientific studies on plants and dormancy and the "rules" to wich the plants adhere.


Another note, All plants can survive a nuecular explosion aslong as they are not burnt by the heat, microwaves do not directly kill the plant (radiation) the heat does I have microwaved a plant befor to kill bugs on it, also microwaving dirt with seeds in it helps improve germination, found this out on accident while sertilizing dirt in the microwave accidentally had a juniper seed in my dirt.

and again about dormancy, it happens between 32-45 degrees F and is triggered by temps dropping down to 50 or lower at night for a week maybe a little less for some trees, that is consistant with all the reasearch I've done every source states it.

And yes I have had trees growing indoors sense october infront of a window and under lights.

I am sorry for the little bit of attitude, but I am not the only person who has done this type of research, there happen to be many articles on it out there done by botanists.

However there have been interesting points taken up here so far such as

What to do with the "inbetween time"

If I am to shorten winter to three months but am unable to bring the plants outside how do I keep them alive during that period in the fall when they need to be inside to prolong summer growing conditions.

What to do with the erly "Spring"

same answer as for the prolonged summer

as I will be building a giant glass doored freezer looking thing, all I have to do is put light in it, granted not the greatest solution but seems to work, after all thats what nersureys do with seedlings on some cases. I also have the entire summer here to find out how long a tree will survive in the indoor environment (by keeping my least favorite trees indoors for the summer or part of the summer)

now I'm not saying any of you are wrong just trying to say I am not necessarily wrong, I mean I could very well be and these last three months of growing could stop tomorrow and I would discontinue the project, but until then I will assume I'm doing something right.

All of this stemmed from the fact that for almost an entire two months we do not make it above 0 and with frequent temps at -20 or lower (daytime) and not having a heated garage to use to winter I need to find some way to winter over. Reading how other people have wintered over in buildings in Minnesota on this forum I found that erly bud break would be a problem, I'm trying to propose a solution to both over wintering in super cold and erly bud break, by bringing the green house inside and useing a thermostat to regulate temps.

 

[rockm]

Uh, OK, but the fact remains you're still at a very, VERY beginning point. Three months, four months, even six months isn't really all that long to conclude success.

The cold hard fact is that trees don't like living inside. Temperate zone trees particularly don't like living inside. Any amount of argument won't make them. If you are one of the lucky ones, or someone who has the gift to keep temperate zone trees inside, that's great, but don't get upset if people who have tried a lot of what you're doing are a bit skeptical of what's been proven.

 

[Austin]

Uh, OK, but the fact remains you're still at a very, VERY beginning point. Three months, four months, even six months isn't really all that long to conclude success.

The cold hard fact is that trees don't like living inside. Temperate zone trees particularly don't like living inside. Any amount of argument won't make them. If you are one of the lucky ones, or someone who has the gift to keep temperate zone trees inside, that's great, but don't get upset if people who have tried a lot of what you're doing are a bit skeptical of what's been proven.

completely understandable, I'm only irritated that few people seem to be taking anything away from things I have stated, and I am aware that most of it comes from the fact that I omitted information that I thought was kind of common sense or well known facts.

I am also not only drawing conclusions from what I have personally done but from information I have read done by others.

and truthfully the trees should not be kept inside permanently but I'm just suggesting about 2-3 months of being inside and growing, the rest of the time spent inside would be dormant time in a cooler and they would spend the spring and summer outdoors, just attempting to find a way to winter them without killing them, and I have made a complicated solution to a simple problem but theoretically would lengthen the growing season and guarantee a winter suitable for plants well out of my zone.

The option of building an insulated hut with some supplemental heat during the extreme cold would be the easiest (not necessarily cheapest) way, yet my "wintering case" would like cost as much to build, but would save on energy and allow me to not have to worry about early bud break.

It would also take three years to conclusively say "yes this works", but like I have said drawing from others attempts at similar methods it works. Now putting the information to practice could render entirely different results.

now for some pictures to clear up what kind of growth I have gotten growing my trees indoors sense october.

Texas Ebony seedlings ( I think they are cute so I'm adding pics they have nothing to do with wintering and so foth being a tropical that lives in zone 9+)

View attachment 30240
View attachment 30241

The Pine (I'm thinking spruce but not sure)

View attachment 30242
View attachment 30243

On of me oak

View attachment 30244

I have no idea what this is do you?




Weeping willow Cutting from the beginning of october (most cuttings taken at this time died unless they where a foot or longer the short ones all died) but short ones after the middle of oct took just fine same with the ones taken befor oct.



My setup



things making more sense?

I assume because of the lighting only the top buds opened on the taller plants but some occasional leaf pruning caused lower branch buds to open. I know they are sorry looking pre bonsai stock this is simply a test run and a learning experience for me. But hey those whole trees look good for being ripped out of the ground like you would a pull a weed.

 

[mat]

all of them have been growing sense october,

....

Q. E. D.

 

[Austin]

....

Q. E. D.

is the ... more about the fact that a plant is all ways growing? or the fact that they have hardly grown.

 

[rockm]

From the set-up photo, from what I can see, your pine is most likely eastern red cedar, which is a juniper species.

 

[Austin]

From the set-up photo, from what I can see, your pine is most likely eastern red cedar, which is a juniper species.

I am personally leaning twords jack pine after having looked at it for the picture, we have jack pine all over and spruce in the area I pulled it from, I have tryed growing ceder trees in that area and they do not survive, but most certainly could be a ceder however as they do grow in the peat bogs within a mile of my house.

did a quick google image search after typing the previous statement

some sort of fir would make sense

http://www.bloomingarden.com/Newsletters/120111/4christmastrees120111.html

reference page

http://bonsainut.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30245&d=1359141544 would still like to know what this is

 

[mat]

is the ... more about the fact that a plant is all ways growing? or the fact that they have hardly grown.

It was actually because Bnut made me have 10 characters in my post.

My post was a joke, though maybe not funny in hindsight. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I just think that you should keep working and have some experience & results before announcing that you've proven something that goes against the observations of experienced growers.

 

[Austin]

It was actually because Bnut made me have 10 characters in my post.

My post was a joke, though maybe not funny in hindsight. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I just think that you should keep working and have some experience & results before announcing that you've proven something that goes against the observations of experienced growers.

I will restate I'm not deriving the "proven" statement from my experience alone, but from a number of articles I posted links to, a book I purchased and read and various other forum posts I found on the web that I saw no need to save the links too. No one along the line how ever said doing it was easy.

One article I remember reading was about an elderly lady who had wintered a maple for five years successfully in a window sill she would block off to keep cool during the winter, she lived in an apartment complex in new york city. In the thread they explained to her about using her refrigerator instead as it would keep a more steady temp the thread ended after that bit of info.

That thread is what convinced me to look deeper into the science of plants and dormancy.

after that there was a man who did the fridge thing in thailand with a ginko tree for 3 years then the thread ended.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Sorry Austin, but I'm a big indoor grower and from what I see from your picture of your light setup, not much is going on.

You've got CFLs, which aren't usually best to use in indoor lighting situations because regular fluorescents are much more effective. The lights are also a bit too far above the plants to be of any benefit to them. They should be much, much closer, practically touching the tops of the trees.

 

[rockm]

"I will restate I'm not deriving the "proven" statement from my experience alone, but from a number of articles I posted links to, a book I purchased and read and various other forum posts I found on the web that I saw no need to save the links too. No one along the line how ever said doing it was easy.

One article I remember reading was about an elderly lady who had wintered a maple for five years successfully in a window sill she would block off to keep cool during the winter, she lived in an apartment complex in new york city. In the thread they explained to her about using her refrigerator instead as it would keep a more steady temp the thread ended after that bit of info.

That thread is what convinced me to look deeper into the science of plants and dormancy.

after that there was a man who did the fridge thing in thailand with a ginko tree for 3 years then the thread ended. "


All well and good. Hats off for the research.

However, this really proves nothing, unless you can actually show how all those plants wound up. I have a feeling there's a reason the ginko thread ended after three years...That's about how long a ginko can probably limp along without a dormancy.

Putting a plant in a refrigerator doesn't produce dormancy. It shocks it into stillness. Dormancy, as you know, is not driven by air temperatures, but by shortening day length. In more equatorial countries like Thailand, those days may, or may not, provide enough signal to a temperate plant to begin the four or five month process to prepare for winter.

Wintering a maple for five years on a windowsill probably produces several degrees of "successful" dormancy. It is a stressful location with wildly fluctuating temperatures. Again, the ability of a plant to successfully continue for say, a decade, in those conditions is not a given. Far from it.

All this doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to follow your desire to push the limits. By all means see what you can do.

It does mean, however, that a bit more critical thinking on the cons side of things might produce more insight into your project. Critical thinking of tried-and-true overwintering is not all out surrender to the more experimental side...

 

[Paradox]

Quote I once saw: "You can not educate someone that has already made up their mind"

Clearly after reading one book, some forums on the internet and having some plants alive for 3 months after being in a refridgerator for 2 months, you know more about trees than 2000+ years of bonsai practitioners, horticulture scientists, arborists, forestry scientists and over 200 million years of plant evolution could ever possibly know or reveal.


We look forward to seeing pictures of your trees in 5 years and beyond.
Good luck



/Ending my participation in this thread before my sarcasm meter goes further off the deep end.