Eisei-En summer sale

[BobbyLane]

I'm sorry, you are right about the tridents being imports. The J.maples are not.

I'm sure there are better rates on conifer onsite or at auction but the prices are competitive and consistent with the price of other pros or online shops.

Yes I see that, in regards to other pros. However, on the first page you claimed prices were more reasonable than the ones on mirai. But again, I think the level of quality on the mirai deciduous trees was a bit better and presentation in regards to being able to view previously worked trees, various stages etc

Lets say you go to paypal and purchase one of the Bjorn trees, its essentially a blind buy, and when you go to pick it up youll be hoping its everything you envisioned it to be online when you hit the purchase button

 

[roberthu]

You've missed quite a lot if you think all those maples are are just trunk chopped nursery trees. They're not and while the prices are juuuust a bit high, I think they're pretty good for what they are.

For instance, this straight trunked chopped air layer has an exceptional nebari. Better than ANY I've seen in a nursery grown tree. The person that air layered knew WTF they were doing. They got even roots all around the trunk and knew how to thin them out to get a flat even flow of roots in 360 degrees--which as anyone who has air layered a tree knows, is a challenge.

Getting the nebari right is almost 80-90 percent of making a tree. It is that important. Branches come later and aren't all that hard to get set. Most anything you do with this tree from now on will likely be successful because of that nebari.

You can get lower priced materials from places like Driftwood Bonsai and big box stores, but you get what you pay for. I took a spin through Diftwoods site, has nice material, but not comparable. Roots and nebari on most of what I saw range from meh to a mess...You will spend five to ten years sorting some of that out, depending on species and individual tree.

I didn't say all the materials were trunk chopped nursery trees. Some are and the prices are too high for what they are.
Regarding nebari and how long it takes to build a tree, I think it takes 5-10 years minimum to build most bonsai. Nebari, trunk, branches and ramifications all take a long time. To me, a material worth buying at over $500 or even $1K needs to have decent nebari and trunk, not perfect. Branches can be built later. The biggest part of fun in bonsai to me at least is building out branches and ramifications, while fix some issues in the trunk and root spread. Most of those trees listed just don't have much more than nursery stocks. Of course this is an art form and everyone has different opinions. I know you said Driftwoods aren't impressive and I'd agree, but the prices also match what you see. To be clear, I am not in any way promoting Driftwood bonsai. I have only bought one juniper from them. I am just saying for the price, there are places to get more promising materials.

 

[roberthu]

Ill take a punt, the said maple will look similar to this but without the taper, branch structure and proportions. You can obviously do that bit yourself over time. But these thick areas would concern me.
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Exactly! And for $2K, you can't even see the structure without the leaves....

 

[roberthu]

Yes I see that, in regards to other pros. However, on the first page you claimed prices were more reasonable than the ones on mirai. But again, I think the level of quality on the mirai deciduous trees was a bit better and presentation in regards to being able to view previously worked trees, various stages etc

Lets say you go to paypal and purchase one of the Bjorn trees, its essentially a blind buy, and when you go to pick it up youll be hoping its everything you envisioned it to be online when you hit the purchase button

I totally agree the Mirai trees sold were much more transparent in the presentation. And most of them had much better structures in the sense of nebari, trunk and primary branch locations.

 

[Paradox]

It will be illegal for nurseries to sell Japanese Black Pine in Massachusetts by 2025. Their sale is being phased out because they are threatening native pine habitats particularly along the coast and the cape, where habitats are being taken over by the species. Apparently, the species not only grows like a weed, it is killed by a bark beetle and leaves standing carcasses that are fire hazards.

JBP used to be planted here for wind breaks too but a fungus or something killed them off 30 or more years ago. So much so the DEC decided they weren't going to grow them any more in the state nursery to be planted any more.

Pine beetles will do in the native pines here first. So many pitch pines dead from the lack of rain the last couple of years and pine beetles.
Its been said that the pine beetles will significantly change the tree communities here. Sad to see.

 

[rockm]

Exactly! And for $2K, you can't even see the structure without the leaves....

Well, yeah, so how can you be "concerned" about them without actually seeing the areas? Ask for a photo from Bjorn if you're interested in making the investment. Otherwise, you're just concerned about nothing in particular. If you're going to spend $2 grand on a maple, you should do your due diligence and ask for more info. I'm sure Bjorn expects it. All of the reputable high end sellers and good collectors do.

Mirai more transparent? Not really. I'd say the two are about even. Mirai's pricing is higher and the sale becomes an intentional hyped stampede to "first come, first serve" in the initial minutes online.

 

[Wood]

Any reason why Bjorn doesn't ship? Is that something to be expected at the Nationals? (If I went, I would would be flying and would need the tree(s) shipped).

He probably doesn't want to damage the trees after putting in a lot of work on them, it's a big hassle to ship trees, and he's already heading to Nationals. I'm familiar with a handful of these trees and they're mostly bigger than they look in the pictures

 

[Wood]

Lets say you go to paypal and purchase one of the Bjorn trees, its essentially a blind buy

It's Bjorn. He's got a reputation for extremely high quality trees for a reason. You can trust the reputation or you can bet against it

He's not the kind of guy to grow out a mop of foliage just to hide a couple of chops

 

[shohin_branches]

I think I'll stick with a t-shirt

 

[_#1_]

I am just saying for the price, there are places to get more promising materials.

Can you list a couple places? I was actually looking for something like a Trident or Acers sp.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Can you list a couple places? I was actually looking for something like a Trident or Acers sp.

I'd like to know where to get this better material as well.

 

[roberthu]

Well, yeah, so how can you be "concerned" about them without actually seeing the areas? Ask for a photo from Bjorn if you're interested in making the investment. Otherwise, you're just concerned about nothing in particular. If you're going to spend $2 grand on a maple, you should do your due diligence and ask for more info. I'm sure Bjorn expects it. All of the reputable high end sellers and good collectors do.

Mirai more transparent? Not really. I'd say the two are about even. Mirai's pricing is higher and the sale becomes an intentional hyped stampede to "first come, first serve" in the initial minutes online.

I thought “first come, first serve” was the way to do business…

 

[roberthu]

Can you list a couple places? I was actually looking for something like a Trident or Acers sp.

I have posted a couple of years ago the trees I dug from a local grower for dirt cheap. 15-year old field grow JBP for $150. Granted it’s local, but Eisei-en don’t ship neither.

 

[Lorax7]

You may not find a nursery tree with such a developed nebari obviously because theyre not worked on by bonsai people. But you can easily find one with a similar trunk and a potentially great nebari that just needs time put into it, like this maple has had.

The time that a competent bonsai practitioner spent caring for and developing the material is literally the thing that makes up the lion’s share of the price of bonsai and pre-bonsai material.

Good, fast, cheap. Pick two.

 

[_#1_]

I have posted a couple of years ago the trees I dug from a local grower for dirt cheap. 15-year old field grow JBP for $150. Granted it’s local, but Eisei-en don’t ship neither.

You got any solid lead on reputable sellers offering similar caliber trees for much cheaper as you make it seem on your post #62? Sharing is caring

 

[roberthu]

You got any solid lead on reputable sellers offering similar caliber trees for much cheaper as you make it seem on your post #62? Sharing is caring

Yeah search online. I found a local grower by browsing this forum. All I am saying is look hard enough and you will find solid deals. The JBP below was $150. The JM was $80 and the Stewartia was $100. I dug them out back in 2020.

 

[Sansokuu]

He probably doesn't want to damage the trees after putting in a lot of work on them, it's a big hassle to ship trees, and he's already heading to Nationals. I'm familiar with a handful of these trees and they're mostly bigger than they look in the pictures

Honestly, smart move. I have heard of some disastrous shipping stories for trees. Why risk it for a tree that is costing four digits and up? It probably reduces his sales somewhat but bringing them to nationals is a good idea too for westward folks to arrange transport. I don’t think he should remove sold trees though from the site from a seller’s point of view. People get fomo when they see what they missed out on

 

[KikurageOtomo]

Yeah search online. I found a local grower by browsing this forum. All I am saying is look hard enough and you will find solid deals. The JBP below was $150. The JM was $80 and the Stewartia was $100. I dug them out back in 2020.View attachment 499780
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While I wouldn't care to pay the current going rate for one of Bjorn's pre-bonsai, I also certainly wouldn't place those in the same price bracket as the aforementioned maple. They all lack several factors that would be nessesary to address across several years before they could be considered exceptional stock. I'd agree those are great prices to get material of that scale, but thats also a totally different market than material that is already well underway to becoming a refined tree.

 

[roberthu]

While I wouldn't care to pay the current going rate for one of Bjorn's pre-bonsai, I also certainly wouldn't place those in the same price bracket as the aforementioned maple. They all lack several factors that would be nessesary to address across several years before they could be considered exceptional stock. I'd agree those are great prices to get material of that scale, but thats also a totally different market than material that is already well underway to becoming a refined tree.

Personal preference at the end of day

 

[_#1_]

Personal preference at the end of day

True that. You get what you pay for.