Eisei-En summer sale

[mj_barb]

Just my .02 but I was surprised how affordable some of the trees were. When selling to a massive amount of people sitting on their couch, you can really inflate prices. Just look at the FB auctions. Plus, it is being sold by one of the top known artists in America. This just goes back to everyone values trees differently.

I half considered the Ryuusen, JM 3, and Virginia Pine 2, and my wife even said it would be cool to have a tree from him, but I’m going to wait for the national show for my next tree(s).

If anyone buys one, post it here when you get it!

 

[BobbyLane]

To at least offer a counter point. The tree you posted has about as much taper as the Bjorn tree, with only the illusion of some from callouses that will take a decade to correct. This being a pretty big faux pas for traditionalists in the realm of maple bonsai. The nebari isn't even in the same ballpark. At that price-point should he be providing a nude silhouette photo for reference? Yeah, totally. But the sort of person who has several thousand to drop on trees should be able to create some inferences about branching from an in leaf photo. Everything listed also had the stipulation you need to pick it up in person either at Nationals or at Eisei-en proper, meaning you'd have the opportunity to do a intense visual inspection before purchasing.

This isn't a wholesale defense of everything Bjorn does either, I just think you're being hyperbolic in saying you could find a Maple with a significantly developed root flare, selected primary branches and minimal trunk scarring at a random landscaping nursery.

For the type of style the Bjorn maple tree is, it definitely requires taper, but its clear it has some inverse taper here

The trident stump I posted wouldnt require taper, just a large crown. What youd be paying for is a gnarly, fat stump with powerful nebari. To my eyes the maple here is essentially just a pole/broomstick, which you could find in many nurseries, if you look hard enough youd often find some gems with decent nebari. Tridents in any form are highly coveted across the US which is probably why the vendor can charge what he is charging and people will scream great value. As we've seen here.

 

[BobbyLane]

To at least offer a counter point. The tree you posted has about as much taper as the Bjorn tree, with only the illusion of some from callouses that will take a decade to correct. This being a pretty big faux pas for traditionalists in the realm of maple bonsai. The nebari isn't even in the same ballpark. At that price-point should he be providing a nude silhouette photo for reference? Yeah, totally. But the sort of person who has several thousand to drop on trees should be able to create some inferences about branching from an in leaf photo. Everything listed also had the stipulation you need to pick it up in person either at Nationals or at Eisei-en proper, meaning you'd have the opportunity to do a intense visual inspection before purchasing.

This isn't a wholesale defense of everything Bjorn does either, I just think you're being hyperbolic in saying you could find a Maple with a significantly developed root flare, selected primary branches and minimal trunk scarring at a random landscaping nursery.

Some nursery finds, with very good root spreads and fairly decent starting root spreads, but in general many options.

As others have said, the maples on the sale are still quite raw.
FWIW some of them are imports the vendor has slapped a fat tag on and havnt been worked by Bjorn at all as someone said above.
I shared more above. You said one would be hard pressed to find many branch options in nursery trees...

If we are talking in time frames of '10 years' all what ive posted presents EXCEPTIONAL value for money!

 

[IzzyG]

I’ve bought trees from both Mirai and Bjorn(among others) in the last 12 months and have been able to fairly gauge current prices of trees. While there are definitely outlier trees, there’s actually some consistency/pattern to the pricing(yea there’s a bunch of factors including the artist, location, as well as the actual tree itself). Bjorn’s sale is much like most tree sales; there’s a few trees that are underpriced, while some are overpriced. Most are not wildly out of the typical range.

However, this particular sale is interesting as it gives buyers a wider range of developmental points; from raw yamadori all the way to finished trees.

 

[BobbyLane]

Scarless trunks are a USP, unique selling point, but the vendor hasnt mentioned that any of those are scarless, since we know the less scarring the higher value. So its fair to say theyre still quite raw.

 

[BobbyLane]

I like this..this would be better developed in a natural style. Again, if you start out with a good base, chop low and put in the ground, this would be how most deciduous trees react to the low chop..

 

[Paradox]

@BobbyLane
A lot of things are cheaper in Europe than the U.S. I have a co-worker whose husband is from Europe and she has often said how much cheaper many things are over there in stores. Gasoline being one of the exceptions.

 

[BobbyLane]

@BobbyLane
A lot of things are cheaper in Europe than the U.S. I have a co-worker whose husband is from Europe and she has often said how much cheaper many things are over there in stores. Gasoline being one of the exceptions.

The general feeling I get from the thread is mixed tho, some feel the prices are reasonable while others think its a bit high and out of their reach. My thing is, rather than bemoan price, make your own. But yes I get that many will pay no problem, some would just be happy to have a tree from a big name artist. It also appears to me that some dont really have a clue as to what the vendor has actually done, as some of the maples are just imports, you wouldnt be paying for a tree worked by Bjorn in that case.
In general everything in the states is usually seen as bigger and cheaper, from household appliances to cars and land etc. The size of some of your gardens is just ridiculous

 

[Colorado]

I was tempted by a couple of those Limber Pines. Very hard to find limber pines even in Colorado. But… not this year….

 

[Cajunrider]

I was tempted by a couple of those Limber Pines. Very hard to find limber pines even in Colorado. But… not this year….

Does that mean you were able to find some limber pines?

 

[WavyGaby]

The general feeling I get from the thread is mixed tho, some feel the prices are reasonable while others think its a bit high and out of their reach. My thing is, rather than bemoan price, make your own. But yes I get that many will pay no problem, some would just be happy to have a tree from a big name artist. It also appears to me that some dont really have a clue as to what the vendor has actually done, as some of the maples are just imports, you wouldnt be paying for a tree worked by Bjorn in that case.
In general everything in the states is usually seen as bigger and cheaper, from household appliances to cars and land etc. The size of some of your gardens is just ridiculous

I can't quote each statement easily from my phone so.
1. Sure, value is assigned differently depending on current location and market. Pretty much all of the trees are more than I am willing to pay because I wont pay that for any tree while supporting my family. Paying $600-800 for a relatively raw collected tree could be a great value for someone living far away from the rocky mountains though. Alternatively, I would have to fly, pay for lodging, materials and more shipping to get one of these home - probably at least $1500 to start. However, if you live in the rocky mountains maybe you could grab 5 of these Ponderosa Pines in a day's work. I think the entire collecting experience would be a value in itself but obviously not everyone can put in that time or effort.
2. Bjorns name will pull in more buyers and higher prices. However, I am not seeing the giant mark up on something that is clearly styled nursery stock material in development for a year or two like some others have done.
3. None of the maples in the sale are imports. They were either air layers or grown from seed by others and they have excellent nebari. Bjorn did not personally air layer or grow these but I'm sure he had a part in their development. I'm sure buyers can ask about specific trees if they want more details. I don't see any deception in posting full canopy trees without leaves as that is likely not feasible at this scale.
4. I have to agree that the quantity over quality is a big problem in the states. The appliances and building materials from our big box stores are abysmal. Bonsai prices are over priced in the US, especially online, and I hope this improves. @Corwyn13 posted specific example of this recently that I agree are way over priced.
I'm glad that you shared some prices for context. Those prices are what I think bonsai or raw nursery stock should be. I havent seen many or any maples at our nursery that will have decent taper or nebari like you mentioned, but you are in a different country.

 

[Colorado]

However, if you live in the rocky mountains maybe you could grab 5 of these Ponderosa Pines in a day's work.

Ha, now this is comical!

 

[IzzyG]

I was tempted by a couple of those Limber Pines. Very hard to find limber pines even in Colorado. But… not this year….

There were definitely some limber and lodgepole pines that tempted me. As collected stock, they’re decently priced. I ended up getting the raw Engelmann; which was also decently priced yamadori especially when you take into consideration that it’s recovered 3 years post collection and was repotted.

 

[BobbyLane]

I can't quote each statement easily from my phone so.
1. Sure, value is assigned differently depending on current location and market. Pretty much all of the trees are more than I am willing to pay because I wont pay that for any tree while supporting my family. Paying $600-800 for a relatively raw collected tree could be a great value for someone living far away from the rocky mountains though. Alternatively, I would have to fly, pay for lodging, materials and more shipping to get one of these home - probably at least $1500 to start. However, if you live in the rocky mountains maybe you could grab 5 of these Ponderosa Pines in a day's work. I think the entire collecting experience would be a value in itself but obviously not everyone can put in that time or effort.
2. Bjorns name will pull in more buyers and higher prices. However, I am not seeing the giant mark up on something that is clearly styled nursery stock material in development for a year or two like some others have done.
3. None of the maples in the sale are imports. They were either air layers or grown from seed by others and they have excellent nebari. Bjorn did not personally air layer or grow these but I'm sure he had a part in their development. I'm sure buyers can ask about specific trees if they want more details. I don't see any deception in posting full canopy trees without leaves as that is likely not feasible at this scale.
4. I have to agree that the quantity over quality is a big problem in the states. The appliances and building materials from our big box stores are abysmal. Bonsai prices are over priced in the US, especially online, and I hope this improves. @Corwyn13 posted specific example of this recently that I agree are way over priced.
I'm glad that you shared some prices for context. Those prices are what I think bonsai or raw nursery stock should be. I havent seen many or any maples at our nursery that will have decent taper or nebari like you mentioned, but you are in a different country.

Fair enough. I could tell these two were imports even before clicking on them, but fair play in the description it says the branch structure was rebuilt. You cant tell much about was done from the in leaf photos though. To me the branches just look like how theyd be sent over as imports. Id imagine some pruning has been done though.
The conifers look great, im not clued up on conifer rates so wasnt really referring to those. But I can see some high quality yamadori in there.

 

[BobbyLane]

Deception is too strong a word, but maybe not being fully transparent. The vendor has has the tridents since 2016. Deciduous trees are prized on their naked images.
But sure, for those picking up in person they can get a better look then, however me personally id prefer to see naked shots or buy during the dormant period. I understand that many folk who buy these are not too fussed as long as the tree has a few branches jutting out. I'd prefer to know if there is faults I can edit them, if I dont like the branch structure there is scope to change it and so fourth. I cannot judge this from these images.
I dont see why it isnt feasible to post naked images at this stage as chap said above

 

[Sansokuu]

If anyone in the PNW wanted to buy trees, we have an empty climate controlled van heading back to the Oregon area from Rochester. We only booked the van one way, so in theory it is empty coming back. Aki at Momiji-en got a Bjorn tree and was looking for folks to share the cost to transport back.

 

[Kanorin]

@BobbyLane I'm also wondering if the availability of nursery stock is a bit different between the US and UK too. A very large proportion of deciduous (and increasingly conifers too) trees at nursery centers here are grafted specialty cultivars and/or grown as telephone polls for the first 3 feet. I think many of the smaller growing operations folded during the recession we had around 2008 and most of what is left are the large cookie-cutter grafted landscape tree growers. Of course you can still find some gems, but at least around me I'll look at 100+ larger deciduous trees that are low-potential before I find one decent tree.

 

[BobbyLane]

If anyone in the PNW wanted to buy trees, we have an empty climate controlled van heading back to the Oregon area from Rochester. We only booked the van one way, so in theory it is empty coming back. Aki at Momiji-en got a Bjorn tree and was looking for folks to share the cost to transport back.

Thats where Oregan and mirai is right, in the pnw. Often heard Ryan refer to it as the nursery capital of the US, I guess if youre in that region and not finding any gems, youre not looking hard enough
For those saying we cant find any stuff like that.

 

[Cajunrider]

@BobbyLane I'm also wondering if the availability of nursery stock is a bit different between the US and UK too. A very large proportion of deciduous (and increasingly conifers too) trees at nursery centers here are grafted specialty cultivars and/or grown as telephone polls for the first 3 feet. I think many of the smaller growing operations folded during the recession we had around 2008 and most of what is left are the large cookie-cutter grafted landscape tree growers. Of course you can still find some gems, but at least around me I'll look at 100+ larger deciduous trees that are low-potential before I find one decent tree.

A few hours from where I live are a whole lot of whole sale nurseries. When I go to these nurseries, I see hundreds if not thousands of trees crammed close together with the trunks supported via ties to cables. Having a need to compete for sun light and little need to maintain stability, these trees grow upward rapidly, resulting in very tall and thin trunk.

 

[IzzyG]

If anyone in the PNW wanted to buy trees, we have an empty climate controlled van heading back to the Oregon area from Rochester. We only booked the van one way, so in theory it is empty coming back. Aki at Momiji-en got a Bjorn tree and was looking for folks to share the cost to transport back.

I got one from Bjorn. I was going to have it transported directly from Eisei-en but could do Rochester to me if it helps with overall costs. Any room in there from Oregon?