Satsuki azalea out of my depth

[RoadManDenDron]

I bought this last year and it has only just occurred to me I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing!

Mostly regarding fertilisers, I understand i don't want to offer (much/any?) N but I do have individual P and K as well as 'bloom microbes' to support 'plants' during bloom periods by making bloom nutrients more available and aiding the uptake to the plant

When do you generally start feeding satsuki? should I bother with either P or K or anything else?

I do have miracid also

Sorry to tag but @Deep Sea Diver and @Glaucus i would especially appreciate your advice

 

[Paradox]

I use Miracid on my azaleas.
Azaleas are acid loving plants.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

P and K, scientifically proven, increase fruit(!) and seed(!) size.
I've seen very little evidence that they contribute to flowering, and too much of either will block out all nitrogen.

Cannabis growers went crazy with the P+K fertilizer craze but even in that world I've never come across any direct relation to flower size or quality; all of those results could be traced back to other external factors. That.. and the fact that the plant was starved of nutrients by blocking N; that increases sugar content and defensive turpene production.
For cannabis that's OK, it shouldn't live past the winter. For other plants, I'm convinced that high dosing p+k is detrimental.

I stopped searching in 2018 but from 2005-2018 I've never seen anything other than anecdotal evidence for better flowers with p+k. And I'm on a mission to be proven wrong.

From what I've heard Miracid is the good stuff. Since it both lowers the pH and keeps your plant healthy.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Please skip the special mixes, at least for a couple years. Choose this year to sort things.

For azaleas we generally use miracid mixed with small amounts of humic acid and kelp for the liquid side. But for starters Miracid alone is fine.

Keep it up for one year before considering another regime. This will give one more time to understand the tree’s ebb and flow.

Start 1/2 strength. If ok, up to full on a 2ish week interval until a month before blooming. Stop until blooming is over. Continue when done.

During hot weather above 31C avoid fertilizing.

A couple things to do in the future.

Clean out all the dead leaves etc form the tree and pot.

Pruning: The tree seems to have grown out a bit too much in the past year or more. A key step in a successful an azalea bonsai design is to keep the structure pruned to two branchlets at each junction throughout the tree. In other words a bifurcation at each junction. A good time to do this is after blooming.

Resource: There are two really good satsuki/azalea resources for beginners on your side of the pond. In fact together I believe the two together provide the best guidance for beginners anywhere at this time. These are:

Alexander Kennedy, Floral Treasures of Japan it was published in the UK
Janine Dorst, Satsuki Azaleas

cheers
DSD sends

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Thanks guys really appreciate you possibly saved me effing up quite a nice tree!

@Deep Sea Diver how about timing, I mean like starting now with visible buds pushing/wait till hardened off/wait til certain temp reached

Its kept in an unheated greenhouse atm

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Dunno where in UK you are located, but your weather is often similar to ours, except for you’ve a wetter summe.

All our azaleas are in cold greenhouses or a cold frame at this time. This week some have started to perk up, but these are mainly Kurume and early Satsuki so I’ll be planning to start fertilizing them alone in a couple weeks, barring a cold snap.

Di you know what type cultivar your azalea is? Knowing this will help find out its blooming period

cheers
DSD sends

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Sadly only that its satsuki, I may be able to find out flowering time from the seller who is at my clubs, but won't see him for around a week

It started waking up a week ago at least as we have been way over 10 c daytimes.

But now we are due a cold spell with snow expected tomorrow! it was meant to hit -2 but yhat has risen to 1 or 2 c

Is there a sign on the tree to suggest it is ready to be fertilised? Such as, as buds open or a week after opening or similar?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Azaleas are a selfless bunch when it comes to fertilizer.

Especially when planted in peat base media. So start time is not a big deal. Wait until the weather is more stable.

(In the ground we only fertilize in the spring and at the end of summer.)

Btw. Was guessing the tree was in organic, perhaps kanuma media. If it’s in peat, please fertilize at 4 week intervals.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Its actually in kanuma,

The surface is my attempt at getting moss to establish while it is protected over winter without birds to meddle!

 

[Glaucus]

P+K don't improve flowers or fruit. When it comes to fertilizer, a deficiency inhibits growth. So you fertilize to prevent deficiencies.
Second, with NPK ratios you can affect the type of growth. With High N, you get elongated growth. With low N, you get more robust shorter growth. That's the main principle. How strong of an affect this has on satsuki bonsai is up to debate.
It is true though more K has prevented disease in some fruits. Again, it is about deficiency. Not about excess giving a boost. All plant tissues require all nutrients.

Your satsuki is waking up. So it cannot go back in frost. I think the apex partially died? I see branches without leaves, right?
Since it just leaved out, it doesn't need fertilizer immediately.

How you fertilize depends very much on the substrate or soil you are using. All rhododendron are very light feeders, so you have to be careful. But satsuki in kanuma need fertilizer or they will decline within 1 growing season.
If it is in kanuma, you could start with a quarter strength dose of fertilizer appropriate to azaleas/ericaceous plants.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I think the apex partially died? I see branches without leaves, right?

I hope not, though I did see a couple empty branches lower down, I hope its is just leggy branches and poor photography!

Though I was amazed how many leaves died over winter tbh

 

[Glaucus]

Ah, I checked again and I think it is an illusion. I thought I saw twigs without green at their ends. But there is green there and it somehow seemed that the green leaves were from another twig behind them. Or obscured by the angle.
Somehow the reddish underside of some buds popped more in front of how I imagined it in 3d.

I think you mean spring leaves shedding? Those leaves technically die, sure. But usually we use 'die' for bad things that aren't supposed to happen. Yeah, they can lose half their leaves. And those leaves are the bigger ones. So it means losing 2/3rd of the leaf surface.

 

[mighties]

i would probably not fertilize now as it does not look good. tree needs a lot of humidity now. i would not grow moss as it will take nutrient away. my azaleas shed a lot this year as it was too cold (0-8 celcius) and I think below 3 celcius is too cold for them as it shed more than 50% of the leaves but they all came back. I would remove flower buds to keep the tree stronger.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

A couple notes.

Likely the tree lost last years spring leaves. It’s a shocker first time observed. -3C/26.6F is too cold to winter over a small azalea.

Now is the time to slowly get the tree strong.

Fertilizer is ok if the temperatures are above 45F/7.22C and quarter then no more than half strength miraclegro (or other chemical based fertilizer) azaleas is used in this next 30 days.

We are now at this temp here so Sunday it’s going to be fertilizer city! We wait until temps are above 50F/10C to use organic fertilizer.

Moss isn’t going to steal the fertilizer. There is enough excess to keep it fed with normal watering. The advantage of moss is that moss keeps the media moist longer.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[leatherback]

Stop overthinking.
Treat it like other trees, just keeping in mind to avoid calcium-rich water, and fertilize a little less heavy than you would your elms or maples.
Be wary of spring frosts and never let the roots dry out (Nor sit in soaking water, but that is true for all bonsai).

Once you do that, you can keep the tree happy enough. And if you can do that, you can start tweaking. But WAY too much attention is given to special composition fertilizer.
Soil/substrate acidity is important [and you have your substrate sorted for that, just make sure you do not predominantly use hard water].

All the rest is details.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

So happy that this azalea not only started to flower, but that the second flower to open has two colours!

this was always the dream for me to have an azalea with a stripe in the flowers

I forget the name for this mutation?

any tips to care? I seem to remember reading that it's possible to maintain the stripe but its a bit beyond my understanding right now!

 

[Paradox]

It looks good.
Remember to cut off the seed pods once the flowers decline. You don't want it putting energy into seed production.

As for maintaining the flower stripe, I read regular pruning every year can help with that but I don't have personal experience with it.

Perhaps @Deep Sea Diver, @Pitoon, or @Glaucus can respond with more definitive information.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

In short….

Basically these spontaneous mutations occur during flower formation. Multi patterned Satsuki are known for doing this.

One can try to avoid pruning the branches back hard in the areas the mutations occur. However as long as there are a number of these areas scattered about the tree all is well with pruning.

Some colors are dominant on multiple patterned satsuki. Solid colors in these areas …solid red likely…. Can tend to take over the color pattern on the tree so these are marked and kept pruned back to certain areas.

Howe the long range plan proposed was to push back growth right after flowering to inner growth get the tree more compact and robust. so likely all areas will need be pushed back.

That said, be assured it’s highly likely if this is done the mutations will again appear in the next or the succeeding years… as this tree is prone to doing so.


Cheers
DSD sends

 

[RoadManDenDron]

You're right @Deep Sea Diver and i plan to follow your excellent advice with a cutback as suggested

for learnings sake, as I am hopeful these flowers will return,

From the above I can understand that if I prune back too hard I will revert to white flowers (which I will do to combat leggyness in this instance)

But assuming I have sorted my branch structure and this pattern emerges,

How would we prune to maintain the stripe and avoid a full red flower? Is this possible?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

You're right @Deep Sea Diver and i plan to follow your excellent advice with a cutback as suggested

for learnings sake, as I am hopeful these flowers will return,

…Thanks! These patterns will certainly re emerge with proper pruning and care.

From the above I can understand that if I prune back too hard I will revert to white flowers (which I will do to combat leggyness in this instance)

… Not an issue as the white flowers will begin to mutate within a couple years. Patience will be needed for this project… so maybe get a couple more satsuki to work with? You’ll learn much faster that way.

But assuming I have sorted my branch structure and this pattern emerges,

How would we prune to maintain the stripe and avoid a full red flower? Is this possible?

… The images shown don’t give a good assessment of the dominant pattern of the tree. Would need a full flowering 360 image to reveal this.

… However the easy way to do this is mark the full red branches before and after pruning with twist ties. This will reveal the percentage dominant… yet not sure this can be done properly till next year due to the pruning done earlier? Anyways prune to keep the dominant area about 20-25% at this time best you can tell.

… btw after flowering and pruning is a prime time to wire. So study the tree and figure out the major cuts and wiring adjustments you think will be best. Remember to cut to inner green. So keep the tree healthy and be sure to rotate the tree weekly at least jic.

…Presently overseas diving and can’t jump on frequently so I’ll leave it at that

Cheers
DSD sends