Most all of the mountainous regions are relatively "wild." But we don't collect anywhere we can't get permission or permits. We buy permits for any public lands, but we spend most of our time on private land where we get permission.
Rocky Mountain white pines...anyone working with?
- Thread starter Dan W.
- Start date
Most all of the mountainous regions are relatively "wild." But we don't collect anywhere we can't get permission or permits. We buy permits for any public lands, but we spend most of our time on private land where we get permission.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
How much do the permits cost and what do they cover? Are they like deer tags, and are limited to a numerical maximum per season or what. Have you ever had the Forest Service check your permits and harvest? What are the consequences for getting caught out there with the back of your truck full of collected trees and no permits/tags.
This also brings up another question: I would suppose you do not need the permits to collect on private land but what happens if you do collect on private land and indeed fill your truck? In getting from point A to point B you are stopped by the Forest Service within their realm of influence how is that handled, especially if you encounter a particularly aggressive and dumb ranger?
Hi Vance-- I am not a professional collector but have some experience with this but can give some insite in to your questions:
How much do the permits cost and what do they cover- Every state is different but for instance, S Dakota USDA National Forest office offer special forest products permits regulate tree transplant collecting have size, type, amount and locational (state forest, BLM land etc.) restrictions often it is minimal--like 5 bucks per tree--each one has a tag. There are special set of rules for"commercial"collectors.
(http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsm9_012514.pdf).
Have you ever had the Forest Service check your permits and harvest? Yes, and have heard of harrowing stories from others of being accosted by unrelated (ignorant and suspicious) law enforcement. In my case I had 6 Minnesota DNR officers detain me and my truck load of trees when I parked near a State park and was hiking--the trees were collected elsewhere on private property. I talked my way out of trouble. Also in Dakota the office checked permits and tree sizes with no problem. One frind in Dakota was detained by a sheriff for hours after a tourist called him in--he was fully legal but it watsed a lot of time. I have heard of one guy that once got a 5000 dollar fine out east. I believe most state and federal land using people are very suspicious if they see you digging trees up on public land and assume you are doing something gravely nefarious--I personally try to be sly or at least prudent.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
This is very informative and eye opening. There is nothing worse, in my opinion, than a quasi-law enforcement representative------with a gun and a brain full of dog crap that knows nothing, of what he/she is looking at. Understanding that if you are not polite and courteous and fawning and contrite and understanding that they are the brightest and mostest and bestest at what ever,----- you are likely to pay in one way or another. It is for this reason that you do not want to go collecting where you shouldn't, what you shouldn't or when you shouldn't, if you do the learning curve is pretty precipitous like the roads you may have just traveled.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Maybe a covert night operation?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I don't think that's a good road to go down. When you consider the roads you may have to travel to come and go, then do that in the night where it would literally feel like the drop off would lead to the depths of hell,--- I think I can find better things to do with my time. I don't care for heights in the day light doing that at night would freak me out.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Oh yeah. Good point. Well that shoots that idea in the ass.
tmpgh
Shohin
Has anyone had success getting permits to collect in PA? I tried last year to contact the state forest service and was told they don't issue such permits. I think I may have been talking to the wrong people or the wrong office or both.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I suspect you got in touch with someone that doesn't know and doesn't know they don't know. Take a look at the copy of the license Dan put on his post and see if you can get some ideas of people to call.
edprocoat
Masterpiece
Or, you could just go Blues Brothers on them... " I am on a mission from God ! " 
ed
ed
The permits we purchase for "National Forest" are $10 each (note that I said "National Forest" NOT "National Park". There is no collecting in National Parks), and we are allowed 5 permits per household. They are called "Transplant permits" and their general purpose is for a homeowner to be able to dig up trees for home landscaping. Each permit is for one tree, less than 6' tall. Steve and I each buy our five, and if we need a couple more sometimes a family member will purchase theirs and go out with us. -- We are working with the local FS to come up with some sort of commercial permit allowing us to buy more permits, but it's a slow process.
We can also buy permits for State land. But it's not as organized, and the price seems to change every time I inquire. So far we haven't been as interested in the State land areas so we haven't bothered much. I've been quoted everything from $7 to $15 per tree though.
I have been checked. It was a simple and relatively easy process. I find it's best in dealing with people anywhere to always be respectful, (even if I don't think they deserve it) so I haven't really butted heads with anyone yet. If I get stopped with private land trees, I will tell them where they came from, who gave me permission, and a phone number in case they don't trust me. - Most of the FS rangers around here are level headed, and if a person is polite and professional with them they are very easy to work with.
I don't know the numbers, but consequences would generally involve confiscation of the trees and fines. Fines may range from $50 to $1000 and up. As long as you aren't breaking the law then there is no reason to worry about them.
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dick benbow
Omono
Here's some of my work with white bark. The trees are over 23 years old and started from seed collected atop crater lake. the seeds were planted in the ground and did not bolt. but stayed small. I dug them 3 years ago and got them healthy again. Two photos with work yet to be done and the third recently styled...... I found a friend who has 3 bristlecone he started 30 years ago from seed. he promised me one so I'll have my first one in a coupla weeks.
Also here's the last photo of a high alpine fir. Tiny needles. No kidding it took me all day to wire....
I like american trees a lot
Also here's the last photo of a high alpine fir. Tiny needles. No kidding it took me all day to wire....
I like american trees a lot
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Here's some of my work with white bark. The trees are over 23 years old and started from seed collected atop crater lake. the seeds were planted in the ground and did not bolt. but stayed small. I dug them 3 years ago and got them healthy again. Two photos with work yet to be done and the third recently styled...... I found a friend who has 3 bristlecone he started 30 years ago from seed. he promised me one so I'll have my first one in a coupla weeks.
Also here's the last photo of a high alpine fir. Tiny needles. No kidding it took me all day to wire....
I like american trees a lot
I particularly like the Alpine Fir. Saw a bunch of those this summer, beautiful trees. You have done a nice job with it. I'm excited to see how the White Barks are going to develop.
