Rocky Mountain white pines...anyone working with?

[Dan W.]

I'm curious whether anyone else out there is working with Native five needle pines...? Specifically the Rocky Mountain versions, sutch as Limber, Bristlecone, White Bark... etc.

I have found a few via Google... Jerry Meiselik and Scot Elser showed up with Limber's, and there was one Bristlecone displayed at the ABS/BCI show in Denver.

I can't find anyone else sharing their work with these pines on forums or blogs... and would love to see anyones work.

Are there any significant reasons why these pines aren't used as much?

-- I have been collecting a few; here is my favorite (it's big!):

 

[JudyB]

Hey Dan that's nice, and looks huge! Too bad that it seems like g52 is gone, along with Vic and Eric, they might be the ones with actual experience with these. Maybe Crust?

 

[Dan W.]

Thanks Judy, I agree about Eric, Vic and g52... I know they have mentioned them. Sure hope they come back around.

 

[berobinson82]

Whatever happened to Vic and Eric anyways?

 

[JudyB]

Seems like they left when the whole thing blew up recently. I know I miss them. Also G52 (will hiltz) Will H. I know has retired from this forum, but he told me he was going to leave his content, that was nice of him , as his threads were instrumental in my progress. Very sad all around, and I don't know what made them go...

Wish they would return.

 

[Dan W.]

They did mention they were going to be busy for a while. They havn't updated their blog lately either.

 

[Vance Wood]

My wife and I just got back from a trip that included North and South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Idaho. We saw a lot of the five needle pines you talked about but very little that was collectable in areas where you would be allowed to collect. I saw a couple of kicking Lodge Pole Pins growing right at the foot of Mt. Rushmore. All they needed was to be put into a bonsai pot. However; try to get one of those out of the ground and not go to jail.

 

[Dan W.]

Ha ha... Vance! My buddy told me about a couple of great lodgepoles there too...probably the same ones! -- Wish I'd have known you were through WY; could've had you stop by.

I have some great spots for limber... still working on finding the right place for great lodgepoles though.

 

[dpowell]

I collected a big clump of a western white pine from Eastern CA last fall (along with a few lodegepoles). Attached is a terrible photo right after collection. It only put out a little growth this year and the tips of the needles all turned brown recently, but tons of roots have grown out of the bottom of the container so I think it will be okay.
I have no idea how I'm going to style this, I plan on spending the next couple years letting it get established and chasing the foliage back towards the trunk.

 

[Dan W.]

Thanks for sharing! This one looks like it could either be a lot of fun...or a lot of head-ache...lol

 

[Vance Wood]

Ha ha... Vance! My buddy told me about a couple of great lodgepoles there too...probably the same ones! -- Wish I'd have known you were through WY; could've had you stop by.

I have some great spots for limber... still working on finding the right place for great lodgepoles though.

Our agenda was so tight and compacted as to places my wife wanted to see we probably would not have had time. We went to places that if I were to ask natives of the area they have probably not seen. Places like Village on a Slant, The Bear Tooth By Way, and The City of Rocks. I will think ahead next time, and there will be a next time. I appreciate the offer.

 

[dick benbow]

i have four white bark, two limber pines. the white barks came from seed from crater lake. i believe the limbers were dug in the mountains of washington state and collected by john Muth from bonsai NW.

One of the limber pine will be taken to Ryan Neil for artistic styling now that it is stabilized and in a pot. The white bark have all been transplanted this year from ground to pot.

So i'm just getting started. I pottted each of the white bark in different medium soil mixes but all seem to be doing just great. All are over 20 years of age and shohin size. I thought for sure
they'd get bigger than those growing at 6,000 feet, but nope....they're staying small. I have access to about half a dozen more which i think I'll take advantage of this spring.

Initially when i started bonsai, if it wasn't japanese...well it wasn't. lately I have been making an effort to acquire collected trees from this continent. I have 3 shore pines (contorta-contorta) a douglas fir and several alpine firs.

So your probably thinking, aha! he was influenced by local artisans. No actually it was a visiting japanese teacher who told me to use local trees as they adjust much easier to local conditions. he had a point!

 

[dick benbow]

forgot to add my hemlock. I have 5 of them, 4 collected locally this fall and one that came from vancouver island, canada a few years back.

 

[Vance Wood]

i have four white bark, two limber pines. the white barks came from seed from crater lake. i believe the limbers were dug in the mountains of washington state and collected by john Muth from bonsai NW.

One of the limber pine will be taken to Ryan Neil for artistic styling now that it is stabilized and in a pot. The white bark have all been transplanted this year from ground to pot.

So i'm just getting started. I pottted each of the white bark in different medium soil mixes but all seem to be doing just great. All are over 20 years of age and shohin size. I thought for sure
they'd get bigger than those growing at 6,000 feet, but nope....they're staying small. I have access to about half a dozen more which i think I'll take advantage of this spring.

Initially when i started bonsai, if it wasn't japanese...well it wasn't. lately I have been making an effort to acquire collected trees from this continent. I have 3 shore pines (contorta-contorta) a douglas fir and several alpine firs.

So your probably thinking, aha! he was influenced by local artisans. No actually it was a visiting japanese teacher who told me to use local trees as they adjust much easier to local conditions. he had a point!

I have a very great interest in how the White Barks do. I have thought about growing some from seed but, as is the case pointed out in the beginning of this post, so few people are doing any serious work with native five needle Pines. For years I have been looking for evidence of any serious bonsai with Bristle Cone Pines to find they are almost non existent. Up until this post I had come to assume that very few people knew about White Bark Pine (Pinus Albacalus) at all.

When we were outside YellowStone I asked a Forrest Service worker about White Barks and he told me they were the same as Limber Pine (Pinus Flexis). He hummed and hawed when I asked him why they had different botanical names. He then admited that maybe he had to do a little upgrading of his dendrological knowledge. In other words he did not know. It's amusing to me that the people that should know this kind of stuff know less than some Mid West Bozo that grows bonsai.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Hello beautiful people...

What a crazy summer... and I am serious when I say it was crazy. Good and at times not so good.... but life is that way. I'm sorry we were gone enough to have that absence noted. But as things slow down, I'll see what we can do to make up for lost time.

I'm working on the collecting trip post which is long overdue... and is now going to be morphed to include our most recent collecting trip up to Canada where Eric was in Yellow Cedar heaven!
So look forward to that this week.

As to the subject of this thread... (Thanks so much for the text Dan... it was so nice to get) I sadly have little to contribute to it. Our Daniel has never encouraged the collection of Limber Pine, as he has had zero success with it. In fact there is only one white pine in his entire collection... and that is a sugar pine. So needless to say they are not something I have a lot of experience with. I have an Eastern White Pine... but it's a funny looking thing. lol

Hmmm.... from the looks of it, I have nothing to contribute. How sad.

Missed the whole crazy lot of you... really,

V

 

[Dan W.]

Thanks Dick, keep us posted on how they respond to bonsai work. Would you mind sharing a pic or two?...especially the white bark's? Also, I've never run in to one.. . so I'm not entirely sure how they differ from limber. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Vance, I've run into that problem as well. Some of the tree identification publications put out by our local FS department aren't accurate. For instance, their publications say to identify ponderosa by 3 needle clusters... which is correct for p. ponderosa found in other areas of the country; but our rocky mountan "scopulorum" has 2-3 and in most cases I have found them to have only two. (It's not really a big deal...but, just something we notice when we're looking so close...lol)

Let me know when you're back in the area. I'd love to have you by, and learn anything you'd be willing to share.

 

[Dan W.]

We're glad to have you back! And looking forward to the posts!

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Any chance we could see the funny looking EWP too? I have one I have been working on one posted in another thread a while ago, but I am always curious to see what is out there in this particular maligned species.

Thanks,
David

 

[Vance Wood]

Any chance we could see the funny looking EWP too? I have one I have been working on one posted in another thread a while ago, but I am always curious to see what is out there in this particular maligned species.

Thanks,
David

The species is maligned because most people who have tried them have failed to get the kind of results one would associate with a world class bonsai or even a show ready bonsai. The needles are too long and the back budding if you pinch is questionable. One of those trees where you can grow but the results you get in the end, don't seem to equalize out the effort spent to get it there. The only believable Strobus' seem to be in the very large category and even then the needles do not seem to be in proportions that make for a good bonsai.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

I could deal with needle length if I could get reliable back-budding. I just don't know the trigger. There is always one... you just have to figure it out.

I don't have any recent photos of the EWP, but if I can find an old one, I'll show it to you.

V