Opinions on an Amur Maple being auctioned

I like the first maple. it is excellent material for the Fairy Tale Bonsai Style or also for the more conventional Naturalistic Style. In both cases the deadwood is the main feature. The deadwood of amur maples decays very quickly. So in a couple of years this will be a tree with a huge hollow in front. If done well this could be very interesting. For me this is worth a lot. But as one can see from the remarks the general bonsai crowd has no understanding of these styles. This kind of materiel can still be purchased for very cheap. For them it is third grade or worse. For me it is first grade and US$ 150 to me is a steal.2018-10-TSA_4734ofw.jpg2017-11-TSA_0711ofw.jpg2017-10-TSA_0578ofw.jpg2017-10-TSA_0578w2.jpg
 
"If done well this could be very interesting."

Well, yeah, ok...but that's kind of easy to say when you start with material like you've shown coupled with a lot of expertise to produce the results. Your trees are a lot larger with more going for them than a big wound--like good nebari, for one. $150 is still expensive for this stock, IMO.
 
Walter, do you think this style works as well for trees as small as the one discussed in this thread? The examples you show are much larger, with much more material to work with.
Genuine question.
 
Walter Pall said:
I like the first maple. it is excellent material for the Fairy Tale Bonsai Style or also for the more conventional Naturalistic Style. In both cases the deadwood is the main feature. The deadwood of amur maples decays very quickly. So in a couple of years this will be a tree with a huge hollow in front. If done well this could be very interesting. For me this is worth a lot. But as one can see from the remarks the general bonsai crowd has no understanding of these styles. This kind of materiel can still be purchased for very cheap. For them it is third grade or worse. For me it is first grade and US$ 150 to me is a steal.View attachment 244911View attachment 244912View attachment 244913View attachment 244914
Click to expand...


Thank you!

I try to say the same and get a response that makes me feel like the poster thinks I have the intelligence level equivalent to that of a concussed duckling. It hurts a bit to be told things like grafting roots to the bottom of a dead trunk won’t work.
 
Walter Pall said:
I like the first maple. it is excellent material for the Fairy Tale Bonsai Style or also for the more conventional Naturalistic Style. In both cases the deadwood is the main feature. The deadwood of amur maples decays very quickly. So in a couple of years this will be a tree with a huge hollow in front. If done well this could be very interesting. For me this is worth a lot. But as one can see from the remarks the general bonsai crowd has no understanding of these styles. This kind of materiel can still be purchased for very cheap. For them it is third grade or worse. For me it is first grade and US$ 150 to me is a steal.
Click to expand...
Or no appreciation of these styles, in some cases. The OP tree is nothing like what you’re holding up as examples, as you know. But maybe you should buy it and in 10 years, show the general Bonsai crowd how wrong they are.
 
wireme said:
Thank you!

I try to say the same and get a response that makes me feel like the poster thinks I have the intelligence level equivalent to that of a concussed duckling. It hurts a bit to be told things like grafting roots to the bottom of a dead trunk won’t work.
Click to expand...

Hope I didn't make you feel that way man! I really appreciate all the opinions coming through and I changed my mind on purchase for a couple of reasons:

1) I am concerned about the general health of the tree with that much dead material - and especially the future health of the tree in my care since I'm still pretty well new to anything thats not a stick-in-a-pot or basic nursery stock or club stock. I'm getting better at identifying and solving issues, but I'm still very much under the mantra I don't really want to spend money I'm not willing to lose and if I'm going to buy just one tree in the next three months, I'd rather have something I'm less concerned about.

2) I have zero experience in carving bonsai nor do I possess carving tools. I'm very interested in learning but it seems like learning something like that would be limited via internet or videos and I'd do better to keep my eye out for a local workshop on carving, or practice on cheaper material.

3) I'll say it again, I seriously appreciate the opinions here, especially with "worth" of material. Its the wild west out there sometimes when it comes to buying and my home area is a bonsai dead zone, I just know one other guy practicing within a 2 hour drive of me. A lot of the times if I'm buying from individuals instead of making a pilgrimage to a nursery I get a lot of them saying "Make an offer" and then I'm either stuck insulting them with a lowball price or screwing myself by offering too high.

I want to improve my collection and have more advanced material - I do see a lot of advice here to pick up a couple $200 pieces to help learn development/ramification skill versus just trying to grow out a trunk or nebari, etc. but at this point I have seen pieces that look great to my untrained eye that I don't make an offer on thinking they will be way expensive only for them to sell for $75 and then other pieces that look just beyond a stick in a pot to me that end up selling for $180. So again, I really appreciate everyone who has chimed in on this and appreciate the future patience of the community when I inevitably ask similar questions in the future.
 
cheap_walmart_art said:
Hope I didn't make you feel that way man! I really appreciate all the opinions coming through and I changed my mind on purchase for a couple of reasons:

1) I am concerned about the general health of the tree with that much dead material - and especially the future health of the tree in my care since I'm still pretty well new to anything thats not a stick-in-a-pot or basic nursery stock or club stock. I'm getting better at identifying and solving issues, but I'm still very much under the mantra I don't really want to spend money I'm not willing to lose and if I'm going to buy just one tree in the next three months, I'd rather have something I'm less concerned about.

2) I have zero experience in carving bonsai nor do I possess carving tools. I'm very interested in learning but it seems like learning something like that would be limited via internet or videos and I'd do better to keep my eye out for a local workshop on carving, or practice on cheaper material.

3) I'll say it again, I seriously appreciate the opinions here, especially with "worth" of material. Its the wild west out there sometimes when it comes to buying and my home area is a bonsai dead zone, I just know one other guy practicing within a 2 hour drive of me. A lot of the times if I'm buying from individuals instead of making a pilgrimage to a nursery I get a lot of them saying "Make an offer" and then I'm either stuck insulting them with a lowball price or screwing myself by offering too high.

I want to improve my collection and have more advanced material - I do see a lot of advice here to pick up a couple $200 pieces to help learn development/ramification skill versus just trying to grow out a trunk or nebari, etc. but at this point I have seen pieces that look great to my untrained eye that I don't make an offer on thinking they will be way expensive only for them to sell for $75 and then other pieces that look just beyond a stick in a pot to me that end up selling for $180. So again, I really appreciate everyone who has chimed in on this and appreciate the future patience of the community when I inevitably ask similar questions in the future.
Click to expand...
Much wisdom in this post, CWA.
 
Of course i showed examples of tree which are at exhibit level. The first maple shown can well be made into a very fine hollow tree. Any number of my students could do it. One does not even have to carve. Within five years the deadwood will have rotted away and you can just brush it off.
 
By and large, rot is NOT really a good thing in an amur that can be brushed off.

In some cases (and I've had a couple of them), the rot is a sign the tree has some other issues. Not saying this is the case here, but rot is rot and it does NOT stop. It is a lifelong chore to take care of, unless, or course, the wound heals around it and seals it off.

FWIW, I've heard from Japanese-schooled teachers that Japanese growers don't hollow out deciduous trees (or many pines, for that matter) because hollowing them out is the first step on a path to the tree's demise. May take five, ten or fifteen, but they decline faster than intact trunks.

I have had a hollow trunked amur. It was old and pretty well developed. got it at the National Arb's surplus bonsai sale (yeah, those used to be a thing-great source for great stuff). anyway, that amur took a decade to die, no matter what I did with the deadwood. I live in a pretty humid climate, so rot is hard to get rid of. Additionally, the deadwood attracted borers-apparently the scent of decaying exposed wood attracts them. The tree died off piece by piece as the rot and borers took their toll...

I know most of that was inexperience and inattention on my part, but hollowed out trees require attention...

Not saying that with carving and attention, this couldn't be a good tree. Question is, do you want to spend $150 for that? (and BTW, that's a bit high for this specimen in the U.S., where this species is extremely common as an invasive.)
 
Walter Pall said:
The deadwood of amur maples decays very quickly. So in a couple of years this will be a tree with a huge hollow in front.
Click to expand...

But not too huge! The trunk is probably only .75 inch thick. I don't see much girth growing in that tiny pot...ha!


I did get a chuckle out of this though.....Your bombasity does make coming to the forum fun.
 
Walter Pall said:
Huge is not an absolute description Huge is relative. Compared to .74 inch trunk width a hollow with .40 inch width is huge.
Click to expand...
It takes a big man to clarify his comments....thank you
 
Thanks Walter, you've reinforced my thinking and commentary regards the Amur Maple of the OP....
Good to know I was on the right track all along and on another note I'm saddened to see so many Short Sighted Experts here and some of these folks are considered Masters, I'll have to re-think my thought's of So Called Masters....
Thanks again Walter for your Expert comments...
FWIW...I live a few miles from the fellow offering this Amur Maple and if still available after 4 June I am going to make him an Offer, wish me luck...
 
15 maybe 20 people interested in this thread. Less that that actually participating. A couple hundred looking at it on FB, maybe thousands.

No one has dropped the hammer?

I think Walter withstanding, this dog does not hunt.
 
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