Opinions on an Amur Maple being auctioned

[0soyoung]

I would but I cant find it and anyway I don't want to steal it away from Cheap Walmart guy....

Since you are in the Amur maple market, what would you pay for this?



I keep telling myself that it has potential and am unwilling to admit that I may not have what it takes to get it there.

btw, this side of the trunk is likely dead. I figure one of those carved trunks that seem to be admired is in its future, if there indeed is one.

 

[Bolero]

Since you are in the Amur maple market, what would you pay for this?

I would call this a $250.00 Bonsai...Trunk Dia ? Tree Height ? Foilage Width ? Age of tree ? Lets see the other side ...
This also appears to be a Japanese Elm Maple...

View attachment 244821

I keep telling myself that it has potential and am unwilling to admit that I may not have what it takes to get it there.

btw, this side of the trunk is likely dead. I figure one of those carved trunks that seem to be admired is in its future, if there indeed is one.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Nope.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for the opinions folks, im glad i asked. This will help me in judging future material and I think I'll spend some time reading through tree critiques in the archive to help develop my eye.

A good way to approach the selection of appropriate material for Bonsai is to become very familiar with the guides used for judging show trees. Once you begin to understand the weighting of assigned points for specific characteristics and desireable traits in specific species it becomes a lot clearer what to look for.
For example the number of points possible for nebari and trunk clearly establish that they carry the most weight in establishing quality and therefore value! This part of the judging scale can vary but often falls between 50-60% of the overall score.
My suggestion would be to learn how to recognize desireable forms of nebari and trunks for the type of trees you are interested in before going shopping or trying to assess value.

 

[0soyoung]

I would call this a $250.00 Bonsai...Trunk Dia ? Tree Height ? Foilage Width ? Age of tree ? Lets see the other side ...
This also appears to be a Japanese Elm Maple...

View attachment 244821

The pot is about 15 inches wide (incl. lips). About 13 inches high. You can see from the pic that the trunk caliper is about 1/6th the pot width, or about 2.5 inches. Wild guess that it is about 20 years - I've had it for about a decade, give or take.

WTF is a Japanese Elm Maple? I'm aware of Japanese elms and this definitely isn't one. I have about 14 different cultivars of Japanese maples and this isn't one. I've had Amur maples as landscape trees. This is indeed an acer ginnala.

The nebari is far better from the right and the other side, but I don't think it is worth my time to take pix. As Amur maple nebari go, though, this one has excellent nebari, IMHO. The question is whether one can make a tree of this to go with it.

 

[amatbrewer]

...in its future, if there indeed is one.

It is more refined and less flawed than anything I currently have. So, if you are ever fed up with it and passing through Yakima, feel free to abandon it on my porch.

Hey...Maybe I found my niche! ' The Land of Misfit Bonsai.' If nothing else it would explain the Schefflera in a Spam tin...

 

[wireme]

If this is worth $150 I'm a millionaire!!!!!

Yea!!!

What do you mean? I’ll bet you don’t even own one single Japanese siberian elm maple.

 

[Smoke]

What do you mean? I’ll bet you don’t even own one single Japanese siberian elm maple.

Nope, but that's not the point. The point is what you people are willing to pay for crapsai. That's the point.

This whole thread gives the "ART" of bonsai a black eye.

 

[Smoke]

What I would be interested in is; What the Hell is a Japanese Siberian Elm Maple?

I mean which is it Siberian or Japanese?

 

[wireme]

What I would be interested in is; What the Hell is a Japanese Siberian Elm Maple?

I mean which is it Siberian or Japanese?

I was kidding about the name, it’s an Amur maple which is the only small leafed maple I know of that can survive here so that’s something going for it. I am a bit surprised that everyone thinks it’s crap though. I do kinda like it, dead trunk and all, rootage wil never be perfect but could be worked into something atypical but yet attractive. Seems like a bit of art could be thrown at and it could fairly quickly become a decent sort of fairy tale style tree. Maybe I’m wrong about that but material with a good enough start to become a decent tree in not many years seems worth a hundred bucks or so I figure. I wouldn’t go out of my way but if someone walked into the yard with that I would maybe go for it.

Hey Walmart, maybe you can let us know if it does sell? I’m just curious is all, I think it will.

 

[Smoke]

This is gold, every once and a while I share something profound. You earned a nugget making me laugh....

During the growing phase of any deciduous tree, the canopy and trunk must always remain 360. No part of the trunk can die, and no part of the canopy can die or get weak. To work on either part of those two places on a tree, requires both to be healthy and 360. No roots below, can't grow branches there. No branches above, can't improve the base.

This is just a fact.

When the tree is finished (you know what I mean) one or the other can change and the tree will not be compromised. Most of the time it will stay in it's present form. Just know that it can't be improved because something changed in the shared 360 so you have what you have.

If you buy a tree with a lot of trunk damage like a whole side, you can never really improve the base because there is nothing above to really deal with that. Just remember that the foliage above may look 360, but the canopy compartmentalised itself off from the dead portion. If you don't do anything stupid you can keep it the way it is. If you prune the canopy hard on the dead side of the trunk it will slowly wither and die away over a year or two.

Same with the bottom, grafting roots on the dead side just will not work. Its been compartmentalized off from the rest of the tree to survive.

That's why this tree is not good for bonsai, and probably the reason someone is willing to part with it. If it were that good why not take it to the next level themselves? So the guy puts in on the net and people are willing to buy it, at a stupid price to boot, with the thought of saving it and making something out of it. Thats why I said this thread gives the "Art" a black eye. People don't have any idea how plants grow and how they can be improved. They just buy it cause it looks cool, not knowing that the great things they might have learned here over the years will not work on a tree like this. This is a very artistic thing we do with plants. A person with knowledge knows this and that why sometimes you all don't understand why some of us old timers say harsh things that many of you youngsters don't agree with. I only say it the same way your Dad should have.....tough love.

 

[Bolero]

Dear Smoke I respect your opinion, as always, however in a Non-Perfect World this example could lend itself to some Ingenious Carving on the trunk in order to replicate an older partially dead but being a Survivor possible a Mountain Top Survivor...this type of Bonsai Art is not Un-Common and this Japanese Maple is perfect for that Task.....

 

[Bolero]

Dear Smoke I respect your opinion, as always, however in a Non-Perfect World this example could lend itself to some Ingenious Carving on the trunk in order to replicate an older partially dead but being a Survivor possible a Mountain Top Survivor...this type of Bonsai Art is not Un-Common and this Japanese Maple is perfect for that Task.....

 

[Bolero]

Dear Smoke I respect your opinion, as always, however in a Non-Perfect World this example could lend itself to some Ingenious Carving on the trunk in order to replicate an older partially dead but being a Survivor possible a Mountain Top Survivor...this type of Bonsai Art is not Un-Common and this Japanese Maple is perfect for that Task.....

 

[Bolero]

This is worth a Read describing Carving...http://woodcarvingplus.com/bonsai-deadwood-carving/

 

[sorce]

Hell No!

Sorce

 

[Bolero]

FWIW I believe this is a Grafted example.....

 

[rockm]

FWIW I believe this is a Grafted example.....

Uh no it's not. Amur often suffer extreme dieback after trunk chops. Also Why TF would someone graft amur maple onto an amur trunk? Smoke is right on the money about the workability of this tree. It's not great and will retain that scarring (which doesn't produce buds) all of its life. A one-sided tree...

 

[Giga]

may like 20-30 or if that pot is some amazing pot. But nope

 

[River's Edge]

Dear Smoke I respect your opinion, as always, however in a Non-Perfect World this example could lend itself to some Ingenious Carving on the trunk in order to replicate an older partially dead but being a Survivor possible a Mountain Top Survivor...this type of Bonsai Art is not Un-Common and this Japanese Maple is perfect for that Task.....

The initial post was requesting opinion on the cost/value of the tree! Smoke is right on the point as to why it is not worth the suggested money. The fact that it can be carved does not change the initial value, any tree can be carved. Maples rarely improve with carving, major damage on a maple is not as acceptable as many other species. In fact, the opposite is true. The most highly prized maples typically show very few blemishes if any from development.
Carving is an important part of the Bonsai art when it adds value, not when it simply is the only good feature on the tree.