Merriggioli “mighty trunk” - confused

[dbonsaiw]

One of the maple trunk formation techniques discussed by Merriggioli is the “might trunk”. I’ve attached the first page of the section of his book that discusses this technique. It involves making a low angled cut “down almost to the level of the foot”. I am not sure exactly how this is intended to work as the cut is so low that total dieback is expected by me (there’s nothing feeding the tree on one side). That has also been my experience in trying this technique (see attached pic). Any guidance on how to perform this type of chop without loss of one side of the tree is greatly appreciated. If I chop higher (as he alternatively suggests) I do not get buds low enough to perform this cut either.

So how does one grow a base that looks like a potato with nebari?

 

[rockm]

One of the maple trunk formation techniques discussed by Merriggioli is the “might trunk”. I’ve attached the first page of the section of his book that discusses this technique. It involves making a low angled cut “down almost to the level of the foot”. I am not sure exactly how this is intended to work as the cut is so low that total dieback is expected by me (there’s nothing feeding the tree on one side). That has also been my experience in trying this technique (see attached pic). Any guidance on how to perform this type of chop without loss of one side of the tree is greatly appreciated. If I chop higher (as he alternatively suggests) I do not get buds low enough to perform this cut either.

So how does one grow a base that looks like a potato with nebari?

This is otherwise known as as a “sumo” trunk. There are endless discussions on that topic if search on “sumo trunk”

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Perhaps it works better with the tridents over palmatums?

 

[bwaynef]

Also, that section and the pictures are very faithful reproductions from a similar section of Peter Adam's _Bonsai with Japanese Maples_.

 

[Shibui]

I am not sure exactly how this is intended to work as the cut is so low that total dieback is expected by me (there’s nothing feeding the tree on one side). That has also been my experience in trying this technique (see attached pic).

This is my experience also. I now reduce strong trunks slowly over several years while allowing the new leader to gain strength and for sap to reroute from roots to the new leader before making the final chop.

Many authors seem to quote previous work without fully testing the theory. In this case, Merriggioli seems to be directly quoting Adams as a respected source. We don't know whether Adams was just quoting another source or had proved the theory in practice, and, if so, what success rate he had.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I came across this video on Youtube. It's shows a multi-year development of what seems to be kind of a clump to sumo approach. Pretty cool.

 

[dbonsaiw]

only way for me to really understand this is to give it a go, so that’s what did. Perhaps a little too thin for the process, I used a young rough bark Japanese maple as it had a bud at 2 1/2 inches from the ground that will serve as the leader. From what I can tell from the description of the process, it looks like I am supposed to be building the lower trunk by taking advantage of the additional girth provided by leaving the collar of the branch after pruning (frankly, seems like a recipe for reverse taper, but who knows?).

I guess the plan for next year is to prune back the sacrifice branches to the collar and prune back the new leader to start the next section of trunk.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

A couple of thoughts:
First, the tree has to be large enough and strong enough (and have the necessary root development) to pull this off. If you simply hard prune a younger tree or a tree without enough roots, or a tree with asymmetrical roots or roots on only one side of the trunk, the recovery response will be weak, or you can get un-wanted die-back. When I look at your first example, I see a tree with bad roots - and trunk die-back between the two primary roots.
Second, when dealing with JM, make sure you aren't working with grafted material. Pruning near (or even worse) across a graft will create all sorts of issues.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Thanks for the feedback. As I think about it This tree is likely not thick enough IMO to pull this off. Some background on the tree - I got it from Mr. Valavanis. it’s not grafted and once was something that could have been special but for my butchering it. I stuck it in the ground and it had bad reverse taper down low. It was destined for the discard pile when I decided to chop it down hard, do some serious root work and see if it makes it. It did and seems to be healthy. Other than the dieback from the chop, I don’t see any other dieback. I could always just develop it more traditionally- I was just feeling the need for speed development.

 

[BobbyLane]

I came across this video on Youtube. It's shows a multi-year development of what seems to be kind of a clump to sumo approach. Pretty cool.

The material looks like a good fit for this approach.

 

[MrBonsai19]

I came across this video on Youtube. It's shows a multi-year development of what seems to be kind of a clump to sumo approach. Pretty cool.

wow thanks for sharing this video... very interesting techniques... although I find some of this to be quite a deviation from usual guidance of pruning seasonal work. in particular this step where they cut back the entire tree super hard leaving only two leaves and no buds in the middle of Fall:




Admittedly I have no real sense of how seasonal work in Japan differs from the US but this just really shocked me to cut the tree back so hard like this.


Lol well even as I was writing this comment I went back to turn on captioning features and I can see that they shared the same concerns on the next update



Guess I answered my own question but sending this comment anyway because I did really enjoy the video.

I think there's also something to be said about how vigorous the tree seems to be. The amount of growth we see even after messing up the timing of the previous cutback is insane:



Doing a massive cutback in Fall of 2023 before leaf drop, forcing an accidental push of new buds late in the season, pinching those buds to avoid generating too much soft growth before winter, and then seeing a massive flush the resulting Spring ANYWAY ??? These guys are freaking pros growing these trees lol seems obvious but just really striking to me.

 

[bwaynef]

wow thanks for sharing this video... very interesting techniques... although I find some of this to be quite a deviation from usual guidance of pruning seasonal work. in particular this step where they cut back the entire tree super hard leaving only two leaves and no buds in the middle of Fall:

View attachment 615671


Admittedly I have no real sense of how seasonal work in Japan differs from the US but this just really shocked me to cut the tree back so hard like this.

It needs to be noted that the work done in that video produces an aesthetic we don't often see in the US/West. I attribute it to a rich shohin culture in Japan. There, its my understanding that many of the hobbyists work with decidedly smaller material than we hobbyists in the West use. Because they have a broader exposure and likely are more cramped for space, they have seen shohin at very high levels and do what is necessary to produce those results. All those trees we wonder how they got such a fat tapered trunk with branching so close to it AND crammed it into that tiny pot: well this is how they did it.

You see similar design ethos, only in larger trees, out of some professionals/semi-professionals in California.

 

[jszg]

wow thanks for sharing this video... very interesting techniques... although I find some of this to be quite a deviation from usual guidance of pruning seasonal work. in particular this step where they cut back the entire tree super hard leaving only two leaves and no buds in the middle of Fall:

View attachment 615671


Admittedly I have no real sense of how seasonal work in Japan differs from the US but this just really shocked me to cut the tree back so hard like this.


Lol well even as I was writing this comment I went back to turn on captioning features and I can see that they shared the same concerns on the next update

View attachment 615672

Guess I answered my own question but sending this comment anyway because I did really enjoy the video.

I think there's also something to be said about how vigorous the tree seems to be. The amount of growth we see even after messing up the timing of the previous cutback is insane:

View attachment 615674

Doing a massive cutback in Fall of 2023 before leaf drop, forcing an accidental push of new buds late in the season, pinching those buds to avoid generating too much soft growth before winter, and then seeing a massive flush the resulting Spring ANYWAY ??? These guys are freaking pros growing these trees lol seems obvious but just really striking to me.

It probably helps that Japanese Maple is native to Japan!

 

[BobbyLane]

Most wouldnt cut back their trees as hard as in the video, in any season. Sometimes you gotta take a few steps back, to make one step forward.