rockm
Spuds Moyogi
That's a start. The seller in your area? If not, you might have to adjust.
FedEx strikes again but the Mighty Black Oak emerges victoriously!
- Thread starter abqjoe
- Start date
abqjoe
Chumono
No, the tree came from Mission Hills California.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
You may have some issues then.
From what I can find on the web, Mission Hills, Cali. is USDA zone 9b. Albuquerque is zone 7a--downtown. Suburbs are colder. There's a significant difference between zones 9 and 7. Nine is Mediterranean/subtropical with average annual extreme low between 20-30. Seven is temperate, with significant and sustained winter freezing. Average annual extreme lows between 0-15 F. If you get sustained temps below 25 in the winter, I'd worry.
An unheated garage MAY work. I have no idea whether your oak can take freezing at the roots. If you keep it in an unheated garage it will probably have to be mulched on the floor to retain some heat--and by heat, I mean stay just above freezing--if this tree requires a cold period. I would not overwinter this tree in a greenhouse with tropicals.
To me, from the look of the foliage and leggy branching, your oak looks a bit weak, but I don't know the species.
I would not store a live oak in a garage over the winter, but again the species I have is not the one you have. I would seek advice from someone who knows what your oak needs (knowing exactly what species you have is crucial here).
From what I can find on the web, Mission Hills, Cali. is USDA zone 9b. Albuquerque is zone 7a--downtown. Suburbs are colder. There's a significant difference between zones 9 and 7. Nine is Mediterranean/subtropical with average annual extreme low between 20-30. Seven is temperate, with significant and sustained winter freezing. Average annual extreme lows between 0-15 F. If you get sustained temps below 25 in the winter, I'd worry.
An unheated garage MAY work. I have no idea whether your oak can take freezing at the roots. If you keep it in an unheated garage it will probably have to be mulched on the floor to retain some heat--and by heat, I mean stay just above freezing--if this tree requires a cold period. I would not overwinter this tree in a greenhouse with tropicals.
To me, from the look of the foliage and leggy branching, your oak looks a bit weak, but I don't know the species.
I would not store a live oak in a garage over the winter, but again the species I have is not the one you have. I would seek advice from someone who knows what your oak needs (knowing exactly what species you have is crucial here).
abqjoe
Chumono
Well, the cool thing about my new house is that every room has it's own thermostat. That being said, I can actually set up one of the rooms as a wintering room. I have 2 spare bedrooms on the south side of the 2nd floor
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
Nice tree. I really like the secondary trunk. Now I want a Live Oak too 
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I would definitely NOT try to store this tree inside your house. It is not a tropical. From the way the owner described his treatment, it requires a dormancy period. It will not go dormant inside your house.Well, the cool thing about my new house is that every room has it's own thermostat. That being said, I can actually set up one of the rooms as a wintering room. I have 2 spare bedrooms on the south side of the 2nd floor
justBonsai
Omono
I live in the same climate zone as Mission Hills. Not sure what kind of oak you have, but live oaks thrive in the hot mediterranean climate and grow in areas with typically mild winters. I would think that keeping the tree outside below freezing would be a bit risky so proper storage below those temperatures are in order. Because live oaks retain their leaves year round I would not store it in an enclosed area with no light.
As far as keeping the tree indoors its not so much of an issue of lacking sun (although still important) but rather a lack of humidity. These conditions can weaken your tree quite a bit. Maybe you could build an outdoor enclosed structure with some type of heating element for those sub 32 days?
As far as keeping the tree indoors its not so much of an issue of lacking sun (although still important) but rather a lack of humidity. These conditions can weaken your tree quite a bit. Maybe you could build an outdoor enclosed structure with some type of heating element for those sub 32 days?
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
My suggestion to you...is to try and resell it if you have no proper way to winter this tree. Even if you have room controls in every room. I doubt it can get to the temp one needs for dormancy. Though, again not familiar with the tree species. But will say this. I had to have a special thermostat that dropped down lower than a house thermostat for my cold greenhouse. Hot air rises...and your going to be dealing with a dry house come winter... I've lost a few trees early on...by "assuming" I could make things work. You either have the ideal situation...or you lose a tree wintering it poorly. Choosing the proper material for your location and having the means to give it the ideal wintering it needs...equals success. I certainly would not winter this tree indoors.
Quick search I came across this:
Climate
California black oak is adapted to a climate characterized by hot, dry summers and cool, moist winters. Its climate has an average annual precipitation range of 30 to 70 in., with extremes of 12 to 110 in. Less than 5 percent of this moisture falls from June to September. California black oak grows best in a zone where 10 to 50 percent of the precipitation occurs as snow. Mean daily temperatures in this climate range from a minimum of 31 to 46 °F in January to a maximum of 66 to 82 °F in July.
Quick search I came across this:
Climate
California black oak is adapted to a climate characterized by hot, dry summers and cool, moist winters. Its climate has an average annual precipitation range of 30 to 70 in., with extremes of 12 to 110 in. Less than 5 percent of this moisture falls from June to September. California black oak grows best in a zone where 10 to 50 percent of the precipitation occurs as snow. Mean daily temperatures in this climate range from a minimum of 31 to 46 °F in January to a maximum of 66 to 82 °F in July.
abqjoe
Chumono
It's a California Live Black Oak so it's a hybrid of the two. Thanks for the reply!
abqjoe
Chumono
Yeah that actually sounds like my climate but December through February gets colder than 30. I'll build an outdoor structure if I have to.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
You think you'll have a long enough cold spell for the Ume then? I would think one is going to be much happier than the other. But I can't see them both content. Just something to consider...
abqjoe
Chumono
I think so, I mean winter is winter over here and if a particular species of tree needs colder and less light it's an easy problem to solve. The north side of a yard out here receives fewer hours of sun light and is generally 10-15 degrees colder. By the time winter comes I will be very knowledgeable on the species of tree's that I own and fully prepared to do whatever is necessary to simulate the environment they need to be happy.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I have learned it is far easier to make something warmer...than cooler. Good luck...can't say I understand such a drastic change of temps on one side of the house verses the other. I've personally not experienced that. Even in a microclimate as I am...
aml1014
Masterpiece
New Mexico is a weird place in winter. It could be 22°f at night then it will rise to 50°f on a warm day very quickly, yet, in the shade things will stay frozen all winter.
Aaron
abqjoe
Chumono
Yea our temperatures are a trip! I spent 20 years in the field doing commercial construction before they put me behind a desk and I can tell you that out here no one worked on the north side of any building during the winter months because it was always shady, cold, and no sun. Our cold is a dry cold too.
miker
Chumono
Incredible nebari, beautiful oak! That tree has so much character coming out of every part. Looking into it, I think you picked it up for a steal 
abqjoe
Chumono
Incredible nebari, beautiful oak! That tree has so much character coming out of every part. Looking into it, I think you picked it up for a steal
Yea I'm pretty sure I didn't even pay half of what it would have sold for had it been presented in front of the right crowd.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Incredible nebari, beautiful oak! That tree has so much character coming out of every part. Looking into it, I think you picked it up for a steal
It is a beautiful oak. It would be a shame to see it waste away.
I say that because I was faced with a very similar situation when I bought my live oak from a collector in Texas and moved it to Virginia about 20 years ago. It is hardy to USDA Zone 6/7 and I'm in zone 7. The seller told me it wouldn't be a problem overwintering it here if I protected the roots from the worst of the low winter temperatures. He was right, up to a point.
I had overwintered it in my backyard for the first couple of winters. It was extremely slow in "waking up" in the spring and its existing leaves were pretty awful looking by February.
About 15 years ago, I decided to bite the bullet and store it in a cold greenhouse for winters.
For winter storage now, I leave it exposed in the backyard until the end of November, where it gets hit by frosts and short freezes. I move it to the greenhouse (which is 45 miles away) after Thanksgiving. It is left to shallow freezes in the greenhouse for December, the heat is turned up in the facility so temps stay between 35-40 until March. The tree starts pushing new growth in late March. I usually pick it up in early April. Although that can vary depending on the arrival of spring.
That treatment has made a tremendous difference in its health. It's no longer slow to start. It has gained strength and its development has accelerated also.
This is the problem with species that are borderline to your climate. You can get by, sometimes...
Your oak appears to be two USDA hardiness zones away from the local climate. That is risky, since by and large, with bonsai you subtract a zone from a tree's hardiness to compensate for the root exposure in the container. In other words, your tree isn't going to be as cold hardy in a container as in the ground. Low temps that might only shock an inground tree could wind up killing a containerized one.
You can employ all sorts of makeshift arrangements and half measures and get moderate success, or research and find a better solution that may cost you more $$ and time, but also yields a healthier tree that can develop more quickly and reliably.
I don't know if building a structure in the backyard is going to help with yours. I built one for my oak--two foot deep cold pit with clear poly tunnel over it. It helped, but it was always a nail-biter when the temperature's dropped into the single digits in Feb. and the freeze had reached a foot or two into the ground...
aml1014
Masterpiece
I completely agree that extra measures should be taken to protect this amazing tree.
Luckily we haven't had zone 7 Temps in the last few years. Lowest I've had in 3 years at my place was 13 on several occasions. The last serious winter we had was 2011 when we got to -18, not comfortable. I'm glad I wasn't doing bonsai then because I would've feared for every tree. Considering many plants in our city died that year.
Id say to try and build a well insulated greenhouse that doesn't get full sun all day. I'd also cover it in shade clothe so that it doesn't have massive temp swings. You'll also have to make sure to vent it when it gets to warm. Normally with my tree house, it is closed up until around 7 in the morning, then I open it completely to keep cool all day. Then around 5 in the evening I close it up to gather the last bit of sun of the day and warm up for the night. I only lost some crape myrtle this year, but that was my fault repotting and not protecting from late freezes.
Aaron
abqjoe
Chumono
You'll have to come by the new place and kind of check it out so we can see what location would be best. I'll barbecue
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