FedEx strikes again but the Mighty Black Oak emerges victoriously!

[rockm]

Fair enough, I understand your point of view, just hope you can understand mine too, even if you don't admit it, or agree .
I know nothing of junipers but "grey green" doesn't sound good...

Grey green is a tell-tale sign that a juniper is long dead. The first-time owners of those trees regularly turn up on forums like this saying they've been caring for them well.Of course they wouldn't be posting them if they didn't have a sneaking suspicion that something is wrong. Excessive optimism can blind you to stuff.

As the old saying goes "Too much sunshine makes a desert."

I am hardly saying ABJoe is going to fail. What I am saying is, that having been pretty much trodden the same ground, he's got his work cut out for him. Enthusiasm and optimism are great, as far as they go. Understanding how to water a shohin maple, prune an old oak correctly and at the right time are taught by neither however.

 

[ConorDash]

Grey green is a tell-tale sign that a juniper is long dead. The first-time owners of those trees regularly turn up on forums like this saying they've been caring for them well.Of course they wouldn't be posting them if they didn't have a sneaking suspicion that something is wrong. Excessive optimism can blind you to stuff.

As the old saying goes "Too much sunshine makes a desert."

I am hardly saying ABJoe is going to fail. What I am saying is, that having been pretty much trodden the same ground, he's got his work cut out for him. Enthusiasm and optimism are great, as far as they go. Understanding how to water a shohin maple, prune an old oak correctly and at the right time are taught by neither however.

I understand, I'm not arguing with you. Just wanted to say that enthusiasm and optimism aren't terrible things either. They can lead to a great many things, including increased knowledge of something, because they motivate you to go down certain paths . I think my original comment has been blown a bit out of proportion now though by our conversation. I didn't mean to go so off topic ABJoe.

 

[abqjoe]

Anyone catch the interesting line "I know how to water..." Hope so! I wish the OP good luck with the trees, he's certainly skipped the crawling phase and went directly to running.

I actually bought a water meter and I don't water anything unless it's starting to enter the beginning numbers in the red zone. With my junipers I'll let it get close to dry before watering. Sound safe?

 

[aml1014]

Fair enough, I understand your point of view, just hope you can understand mine too, even if you don't admit it, or agree .
I know nothing of junipers but "grey green" doesn't sound good...

Depends on the variety, here's one at my work that's very healthy

I actually bought a water meter and I don't water anything unless it's starting to enter the beginning numbers in the red zone. With my junipers I'll let it get close to dry before watering. Sound safe?

Don't do that with the new ones, they're probably in soil like mine where the moisture meter doesn't read properly because it's 100% inorganic. Do the old chopstick method.

Aaron

 

[JudyB]

Water meters don't work in bonsai soils. Get some wooden skewers and stick them into the soil. Leave them there and pull them out periodically to see if they are approaching drying. That's a better meter than a water meter is.

 

[abqjoe]

Water meters don't work in bonsai soils. Get some wooden skewers and stick them into the soil. Leave them there and pull them out periodically to see if they are approaching drying. That's a better meter than a water meter is.

I read 10 minutes in is the lucky number?

 

[ConorDash]

I read 10 minutes in is the lucky number?

I've read many varying opinions on how long to leave it in (insert dirty joke here).

Some say a few seconds, some say minutes, some say overnight.
Personally I leave mine in constantly and take it out, brush it off, feel with fingers for moisture.

 

[rockm]

I actually bought a water meter and I don't water anything unless it's starting to enter the beginning numbers in the red zone. With my junipers I'll let it get close to dry before watering. Sound safe?

No. You cannot use a water meter with any confidence it will be accurate. They work by measuring electrical activity traveling between soil particles on water. With open, coarse bonsai soil, you will most likely get a "needs water bad" reading regardless of actual need.

Shortcuts are not a good thing. Learn the basics. The best way to tell if a tree needs water is by soil color and weight of the pot.

To undertand when a tree is in need of a fill up (and you can do this now). Water a tree until the water drains out the drainage holes in the bottom --a lot. Let it drain until it stops. Pick the pot up--feel the weight? That is a pot that doesn't need watering. Pick the pot up at various times during the day to gauge the weight. The lighter the feel, the more water is needed.

This takes some time and effort, but its worth it. It also leads to other revelations about when to water. I can tell a tree needs it solely by soil color now, although on larger trees, the "tip one end up to see how heavy it is" technique is must. The bigger the pot, the more water it will retain for longer.

Watering needs can vary tremendously day to day, even hour to hour. I would expect that is triply true in New Mexico. With those mame, you are one arid wind away from problems...

Get watering down first, learn it. It is the foundation of care. Don't rely on machines to do the work for you.

 

[abqjoe]

No. You cannot use a water meter with any confidence it will be accurate. They work by measuring electrical activity traveling between soil particles on water. With open, coarse bonsai soil, you will most likely get a "needs water bad" reading regardless of actual need.

Shortcuts are not a good thing. Learn the basics. The best way to tell if a tree needs water is by soil color and weight of the pot.

To undertand when a tree is in need of a fill up (and you can do this now). Water a tree until the water drains out the drainage holes in the bottom --a lot. Let it drain until it stops. Pick the pot up--feel the weight? That is a pot that doesn't need watering. Pick the pot up at various times during the day to gauge the weight. The lighter the feel, the more water is needed.

This takes some time and effort, but its worth it. It also leads to other revelations about when to water. I can tell a tree needs it solely by soil color now, although on larger trees, the "tip one end up to see how heavy it is" technique is must. The bigger the pot, the more water it will retain for longer.

Watering needs can vary tremendously day to day, even hour to hour. I would expect that is triply true in New Mexico. With those mame, you are one arid wind away from problems...

Get watering down first, learn it. It is the foundation of care. Don't rely on machines to do the work for you.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[JudyB]

Agree totally with @rockm. It is said that it takes 3 years to learn how to water properly. I can agree with that too. I can tell now just at a glance on most. And I didn't ever believe that weight thing till I finally got it down. True that. In the meantime, do the skewer thing, it can help you to learn. I know they are a bit unsightly in the pot, but so is a dead tree... Leave them in all the time. And your face is a better surface to feel moisture than fingers.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Yes I have the local bonsai club, one of them is a member on here plus I'm an absolute info hound when it comes to my hobbies. I won't lie though, I am a little bit nervous because of the value and age of some of these tree's. But, I know how to water each of these species, I know what type of environmental conditions each species need and I'm able to create that for them, and if I run into a snag I have awesome people who I can ask questions to. My new house that I'm moving into this weekend is absolutely perfect for these tree's! The north side of my back yard has beautiful and we'll established Azalea vines running up the 12 foot wall into a nice canopy which will provide my Maples with afternoon shade that they need as well as the morning sun which they'll love. The south side of the yard is similar but offers more sun for my Junipers and Oak with spots providing the perfect amount exposure for my tropicals. I'll be putting in a Koi pond too to increase humidity as well but for now I have other ways of doing that just by thinking outside of the box. Plus I also have all of you

Love that you have a local club! The one I would need to drive to is so far away...What was your first impression as a newb going into your local bonsai club? I always am curious about such things that are out of my element. Do you take a tree each time you meet? I think I can figure out who the member here is...From location. Wintering...have you thought about how you intend to go about doing that yet? Might be wise to ask those in your location about their species and set up for such...I know Judy is a huge source of infomation to me...her being an Ohioan and all as myself. I feel she can better call my climate and issues than other meaningful ones...who,are in a different climate/zone and such. But still I have got a great amount of food for thought by all on what they use...and how it works.

I have only heard of ones sadly...losing bonsai using those water meters with our substrate being of a different compound than potting soil...but, I believe you have had a great source of direction there in this thread that I don't need to touch on the subject. Really do wish you well...Find a good mentor in that club...that has years under their belt that you can call upon with the slightest question. That I think...Is a gold mine at success.

 

[abqjoe]

Love that you have a local club! The one I would need to drive to is so far away...What was your first impression as a newb going into your local bonsai club? I always am curious about such things that are out of my element. Do you take a tree each time you meet? I think I can figure out who the member here is...From location. Wintering...have you thought about how you intend to go about doing that yet? Might be wise to ask those in your location about their species and set up for such...I know Judy is a huge source of infomation to me...her being an Ohioan and all as myself. I feel she can better call my climate and issues than other meaningful ones...who,are in a different climate/zone and such. But still I have got a great amount of food for thought by all on what they use...and how it works.

I have only heard of ones sadly...losing bonsai using those water meters with our substrate being of a different compound than potting soil...but, I believe you have had a great source of direction there in this thread that I don't need to touch on the subject. Really do wish you well...Find a good mentor in that club...that has years under their belt that you can call upon with the slightest question. That I think...Is a gold mine at success.

Don't over think joining a club, it's a gathering of people with a common interest who support and mingle with each other. As far as wintering goes I have a 3 car garage in my new house and I may put up a green house outside, I haven't decided yet but I will accommodate the trees. My tropical's will have their own room indoors with a thermostat and controllable humidifier to keep their environment up to part. I've already discontinued use of the water meter per everyone's advice and tore into a box of chop sticks that I had in a drawer so now every one of my trees has their own skewer

 

[Cadillactaste]

Don't over think joining a club, it's a gathering of people with a common interest who support and mingle with each other. As far as wintering goes I have a 3 car garage in my new house and I may put up a green house outside, I haven't decided yet but I will accommodate the trees. My tropical's will have their own room indoors with a thermostat and controllable humidifier to keep their environment up to part. I've already discontinued use of the water meter per everyone's advice and tore into a box of chop sticks that I had in a drawer so now every one of my trees has their own skewer

My friend Barb...is part of Seth's bonsai club down in Florida...and they DO THINGS! It's more than just a meeting and mingling with them. I guess...that is what I assumed all clubs were about. They do raffels and all sorts of things. She has came home with some unbelievable material won at raffels. Maybe it's location and what is around them that has them a more up and happening club. Even if that isn't the case with your own group...If you have senior bonsai folk there...that is still time to pick brains and grow. Even if they don't go all out as the do elsewhere. As for not having a club...I'm blessed with a great circle online...that I can toss questions at that I go to specifically depending on the question now...Three years in...and I do apprecaite my circle of knowledge in the group I call friends. Along with archive threads here. *as for clubs go...I do follow their online website...or I did. Until my knowledge I've gained...made me pause at what one member was teaching a lesson on. Trying to remake the wheel sort of route. I was less concerned I can't make their meetings. lol But having just someone knowledgable in your location and years of experience under their belt. If something comes up...they may have been there done that. And know how to address issues that pop up. It's a good source and brings peace of mind.

I find...when I bring in my tropicals...without a grow light I noticed the internodes to become long during winter without natural sunlight...even in front of a window...it's not enough. At least for my bougainvilla. I stepped it up and added a grow cart...and I was impressed with how tight the internodes stayed. May want to add a thermometer in the garage or greenhouse as well. I'm zone 5 where I'm at...and I'm opening windows come winter...somedays its warm...other days my heater comes on to keep them comfortable...That arctic blast we had...I owe my success to having my trees make it to Judy again...she sent me a PM...and told me how she would handle it. I didn't lose one tree...even with temps that hit -26F without wind chill.

Chop sticks...are the way to go early on...You eventually get the feel of color of substrate and the heft of a pot. But...early on...those are a great source of information for watering and when. Glad to hear you are going that route.

 

[abqjoe]

My friend Barb...is part of Seth's bonsai club down in Florida...and they DO THINGS! It's more than just a meeting and mingling with them. I guess...that is what I assumed all clubs were about. They do raffels and all sorts of things. She has came home with some unbelievable material won at raffels. Maybe it's location and what is around them that has them a more up and happening club. Even if that isn't the case with your own group...If you have senior bonsai folk there...that is still time to pick brains and grow. Even if they don't go all out as the do elsewhere. As for not having a club...I'm blessed with a great circle online...that I can toss questions at that I go to specifically depending on the question now...Three years in...and I do apprecaite my circle of knowledge in the group I call friends. Along with archive threads here. *as for clubs go...I do follow their online website...or I did. Until my knowledge I've gained...made me pause at what one member was teaching a lesson on. Trying to remake the wheel sort of route. I was less concerned I can't make their meetings. lol But having just someone knowledgable in your location and years of experience under their belt. If something comes up...they may have been there done that. And know how to address issues that pop up. It's a good source and brings peace of mind.

I find...when I bring in my tropicals...without a grow light I noticed the internodes to become long during winter without natural sunlight...even in front of a window...it's not enough. At least for my bougainvilla. I stepped it up and added a grow cart...and I was impressed with how tight the internodes stayed. May want to add a thermometer in the garage or greenhouse as well. I'm zone 5 where I'm at...and I'm opening windows come winter...somedays its warm...other days my heater comes on to keep them comfortable...That arctic blast we had...I owe my success to having my trees make it to Judy again...she sent me a PM...and told me how she would handle it. I didn't lose one tree...even with temps that hit -26F without wind chill.

Chop sticks...are the way to go early on...You eventually get the feel of color of substrate and the heft of a pot. But...early on...those are a great source of information for watering and when. Glad to hear you are going that route.

I'm very new to the club scene so idk everything that's going on yet. It's a group of people with a common interest consisting of individuals of various levels of experience. All great people whom I am looking forward to getting to know.

 

[JudyB]

Just remember if you set up a greenhouse that winter sun is your enemy. The biggest trouble you'll have is keeping it cold enough long enough for dormancy requirements, if the sun can heat it up. You want 30's basically. Easy to make heat for super cold temps, but hard to make cold. Site it properly, don't use transparent material. Dormant trees don't need sun.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I'm very new to the club scene so idk everything that's going on yet. It's a group of people with a common interest consisting of individuals of various levels of experience. All great people whom I am looking forward to getting to know.

That's cool...honest. That you have ones of various experience is good as well. Though...the ones in the hobby longest I would become real buddy buddy with.

 

[rockm]

Your oak may give you the fits as far as winter storage goes. If it's a Cali. live oak, it definitely will need light--a lot of it. Might need a short dormancy depending on its origins. You might want to do some research into exactly how Don was overwintering it.

FWIW, I overwinter my Texas collected live oak in a cold greenhouse (temps initially are allowed to drop into the mid-20s in December and allowed to rise to mid 30's to 40 over the winter. No warmer.

 

[abqjoe]

Your oak may give you the fits as far as winter storage goes. If it's a Cali. live oak, it definitely will need light--a lot of it. Might need a short dormancy depending on its origins. You might want to do some research into exactly how Don was overwintering it.

FWIW, I overwinter my Texas collected live oak in a cold greenhouse (temps initially are allowed to drop into the mid-20s in December and allowed to rise to mid 30's to 40 over the winter. No warmer.

Actually this one didn't come from Don but the seller said once temps drop to 32 degree's to place it in an unheated garage.

 

[Carol 83]

Nothing like plunking down a bunch of money on advanced trees as a beginner. I did the same, although it was only a single expensive tree, when I started out.

Had to learn very, very, VERY quickly or face some pissed off family members. I think your biggest challenge is going to be insuring those shohin trees don't dry out.

Good luck!

Maybe I'm dumb, or just chicken shit, but the most I've spent on a tree so far is $35, so if they die, I can still afford groceries.

 

[abqjoe]

Well, I just got the keys to my new home and moved a couple of my tree's over there right away The nice thing about this back yard is that there are places of great shade and places with plenty of sunshine too Here's a couple of pics..

I'll be removing that Jasmine and parking my Maples there in the shade of the vines.



The Oak will stay in this spot for a few weeks to get used to the climate and then I'll put it somewhere with a bit for sun.



Same thing with my Juniper, it will stay here until it acclimates.