Japanese White Pine from seed ( the next generations material)

[River's Edge]

Beautiful! So many variations with JWP it’s really pretty astonishing.

What I find so inspiring is the family history involved with Bonsai through the generations. The pride that younger generations show in caring for these trees passed down through the family. in this case the wife of the family is heavily involved in Mame and Shohin and the husband a renown potter in Tokoname. The Pottery Kiln is named after his father and the tree was collected by him. I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to select and purchase a pot created by both the Father and the Son on my visit! The bonus was the tour through the current nursery carted for by the wife and the JWP held the place of prominence in the nursery. They were so kind to share the history and time with me. The father is known as "Shozan", The son " IKKO" . I am the one in blue.

 

[JudyB]

Very cool. I love the rich histories the Japanese culture has. So great that they are so open to sharing it with westerners.

 

[Gabler]

a pot created by both the Father and the Son

That's neat. I have one created by the Holy Spirit.

 

[River's Edge]

That's neat. I have one created by the Holy Spirit.

I assume it has three supports in keeping with the trinity theme.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

I assume the bottom of the pot is holey enough for proper drainage.

 

[River's Edge]

Very cool. I love the rich histories the Japanese culture has. So great that they are so open to sharing it with westerners.

I think one of the neatest aspects of the Japanese culture is their willingness to help. Last week I took a wrong turn and was unsure of how to find the next train station for a transfer to a different train line. I asked a young person for help and they walked with me a couple of blocks to make sure I did not get turned around. It can be a bit confusing when trains run very frequently from the same platform and station to different destinations along regional lines. Someone always seems to willing to help. Very much appreciated by foreigners.
The JWP seeds are now soaking overnight before they are placed in the fridge for a month prior to planting. I used a solution with some hydrogen peroxide to help deter any bacterial or fungal issues in the beginning stages. Will maintain a bit of dampness throughout the refrigeration period.
Next step will be to figure out the best timing for the Trident and JRP seeds. They typically require less preparation and will be sown later.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Sounds like an awesome trip Frank, got to briefly meet Ikko at PBE 2024, He and Kakuzan were both very open to share their incredible experience and insights into pottery production, design and construction.

Also excited to see how the genetics of your new seed acquisitions play out in the next few years!

 

[Carol 83]

That's neat. I have one created by the Holy Spirit.

Watch out for lightening strikes...

 

[River's Edge]

Sounds like an awesome trip Frank, got to briefly meet Ikko at PBE 2024, He and Kakuzan were both very open to share their incredible experience and insights into pottery production, design and construction.

Also excited to see how the genetics of your new seed acquisitions play out in the next few years!

The first batch is looking really strong. I am surprised at how they seemed to progress even a bit over the winter in the greenhouse. Truly mountain pines. Because they are from seed I expect considerable variation. Truth is I will be happy to have white pine on their own roots available for Bonsai.

 

[Goodbrake]

That's neat. I have one created by the Holy Spirit.

Gotta love a good Trinitarian pun.

 

[roberthu]

I am looking to start JWP from seeds myself after searching for ungrafted JWP for years without success. Is it possible for you to share the seed source in Japan so I can purchase some myself? Thanks.

 

[tanlu]

I’m sort of obsessed with regional JWP strains. Are these Akaishi or Ishizuchi seeds? I read that Ishizuchi JWP can have more rugged bark than other varieties, but that Akaishi have more silver-blue needles.

 

[River's Edge]

I’m sort of obsessed with regional JWP strains. Are these Akaishi or Ishizuchi seeds? I read that Ishizuchi JWP can have more rugged bark than other varieties, but that Akaishi have more silver-blue needles.

I am currently germinating three strains. Akaishi, Hokkaido and Shikoku. Areas the seeds were collected from. The Shikoku area is noted for JWP with rugged bark as well. However one must realize that some characteristics re not entirely genetic, micro climates can vary strains considerably.

 

[tanlu]

I am currently germinating three strains. Akaishi, Hokkaido and Shikoku. Areas the seeds were collected from. The Shikoku area is noted for JWP with rugged bark as well. However one must realize that some characteristics re not entirely genetic, micro climates can vary strains considerably.

Ishizuchi and Akaishi mountain regions are both within Shikoku island. I must say, I’ve never seen such textured bark on a non-grafter JWP like that one the photo! I have 2 Ishizuchi JWPs that are 17 years old and they’re now starting to show aged bark characteristics. They’ve both been grown in-ground most of their lives, which I’ve read can impact bark quality, making it appear more coarse. I’m not sure whether that applies to my trees, but it did speed up trunk thickening.

 

[River's Edge]

Ishizuchi and Akaishi mountain regions are both within Shikoku island. I must say, I’ve never seen such textured bark on a non-grafter JWP like that one the photo! I have 2 Ishizuchi JWPs that are 17 years old and they’re now starting to show aged bark characteristics. They’ve both been grown in-ground most of their lives, which I’ve read can impact bark quality, making it appear more coarse. I’m not sure whether that applies to my trees, but it did speed up trunk thickening.

I will have to improve my study of the geography of Japan. I have relied on information provided by Japanese Bonsai growers for seed selection and seed collectors for identification. Each time I travel to Japan I manage to discover a bit more. Will be attending TaikanTen again this fall. Looking forward to the fall colours and a few extra side trips from Kyoto.
With my JBP and JRP there is a great deal of variation ion the timing for mature bark development. White Pine in general seems much slower than other pines to form mature bark. Although it will likely be for the next generation to view. Current status of Last year's seeds are shown below. They are in three inch pots, and 4 to 5 inches tall at this point. When transferred to the pots I reduced the tap root by 1/2 so the growth was slowed down. They are beginning to stretch out after recovering for a while. Using small amounts of organic pellets and planted in pumice/akadama mix with small amount of fir bark. Medium particle size. Expect to transfer to larger size pots in the spring with a bit more root work performed each time the containers are upsized for the first three years. Will switch to wider and shallower pots as they progress. Wiring for lower trunk movement will begin in year three or four depending on progress. This approach is slower but will result in shorter internode length and better lower branching over time.
My site ihas full south exposure with very strong sunlight, great for the JBP and JRP. The JWP seems to grow better in a bit less sun and cooler conditions. I am using a bit more shaded locations and 50% shade cloth for the seedlings and younger plants.

 

[shohin_branches]

They look great!
How long before these will be ready for sale?

 

[tanlu]

I will have to improve my study of the geography of Japan. I have relied on information provided by Japanese Bonsai growers for seed selection and seed collectors for identification. Each time I travel to Japan I manage to discover a bit more. Will be attending TaikanTen again this fall. Looking forward to the fall colours and a few extra side trips from Kyoto.
With my JBP and JRP there is a great deal of variation ion the timing for mature bark development. White Pine in general seems much slower than other pines to form mature bark. Although it will likely be for the next generation to view. Current status of Last year's seeds are shown below. They are in three inch pots, and 4 to 5 inches tall at this point. When transferred to the pots I reduced the tap root by 1/2 so the growth was slowed down. They are beginning to stretch out after recovering for a while. Using small amounts of organic pellets and planted in pumice/akadama mix with small amount of fir bark. Medium particle size. Expect to transfer to larger size pots in the spring with a bit more root work performed each time the containers are upsized for the first three years. Will switch to wider and shallower pots as they progress. Wiring for lower trunk movement will begin in year three or four depending on progress. This approach is slower but will result in shorter internode length and better lower branching over time.
My site ihas full south exposure with very strong sunlight, great for the JBP and JRP. The JWP seems to grow better in a bit less sun and cooler conditions. I am using a bit more shaded locations and 50% shade cloth for the seedlings and younger plants.

Like I said, I’m a bit obsessed with JWP as a species, so I’ve looked at lots of different articles over the years. Now I recall that of those articles said that JWP seedlings are more shade tolerant than other pines, so they can survive fine as an understory tree when young in less dense forests.

Have you considered growing some of those seedlings in the ground?

I have the same question as Shohin_branches

 

[River's Edge]

They look great!
How long before these will be ready for sale?

My current plan is to take them to at least the five year mark, Set some good foundation to the root structure and lower trunk movement while retaining as much branching and foliage as possible. JWP have a tendency to produce heavy branching at each whorl so would like to avoid issues with taper during development. If my health continues to allow me than perhaps the ten year mark. Always an optimist.

Not considering the ground growing. although with the right foundation that might be a great option for the next stages and younger growers.

 

[tanlu]

I will have to improve my study of the geography of Japan. I have relied on information provided by Japanese Bonsai growers for seed selection and seed collectors for identification. Each time I travel to Japan I manage to discover a bit more. Will be attending TaikanTen again this fall. Looking forward to the fall colours and a few extra side trips from Kyoto.
With my JBP and JRP there is a great deal of variation ion the timing for mature bark development. White Pine in general seems much slower than other pines to form mature bark. Although it will likely be for the next generation to view. Current status of Last year's seeds are shown below. They are in three inch pots, and 4 to 5 inches tall at this point. When transferred to the pots I reduced the tap root by 1/2 so the growth was slowed down. They are beginning to stretch out after recovering for a while. Using small amounts of organic pellets and planted in pumice/akadama mix with small amount of fir bark. Medium particle size. Expect to transfer to larger size pots in the spring with a bit more root work performed each time the containers are upsized for the first three years. Will switch to wider and shallower pots as they progress. Wiring for lower trunk movement will begin in year three or four depending on progress. This approach is slower but will result in shorter internode length and better lower branching over time.
My site ihas full south exposure with very strong sunlight, great for the JBP and JRP. The JWP seems to grow better in a bit less sun and cooler conditions. I am using a bit more shaded locations and 50% shade cloth for the seedlings and younger plants.

My current plan is to take them to at least the five year mark, Set some good foundation to the root structure and lower trunk movement while retaining as much branching and foliage as possible. JWP have a tendency to produce heavy branching at each whorl so would like to avoid issues with taper during development. If my health continues to allow me than perhaps the ten year mark. Always an optimist.

Not considering the ground growing. although with the right foundation that might be a great option for the next stages and younger growers.

That’s a noble effort. Please keep us posted of the continued progress. I have a few young JWP seedlings I’m trying to instill vigor in. I was able to wire some low bends in this spring which set very quickly after 4 months. I removed the wire to prevent scarring but may have disturbed the roots a tad in the process. Their summer buds continue to grow but not as plump as the one that wasn’t wired.

I’d love to be added to that 5-year waiting list if there is one.

 

[River's Edge]

Their summer buds continue to grow but not as plump as the one that wasn’t wired.

Expected response. wiring weakens the tree with micro fractures and added stress points requiring energy to heal in position. They will catch up over time. Similar response with root work during development. Avoiding the root work gives faster growth but creates work down the road that slows down the growth!

No wait list in place. My sales are limited to my location, personal shopping only during an appointment or one of my annual open house events. Do not ship or sell via the internet. Small one person operation with limited production.