Hackberry--suggestions for what to do?

[justBonsai]

I picked up a nice hackberry recently but I'm unsure of what to do with it. Should I chop and begin development as a shohin or should I let it send some runners in the ground and aim for a bigger tree? Trunk is about 1.25 inches. These seem to do well in Socal and grow fast too so it'll be a fun project.

 

[Tieball]

Me...I like larger sized Hackberry trees. I have grounds to grow them out around me. I started a Celtis Sinensis Hackberry 1/4 stick in 2012. That Hackberry trunk at the base is 5.5” diameter today. When I show more Nabari the base should be at least 7”. So....it’s gonna come down to what you like really....Big? Medium? Small?

It appears like you have a good structure started with some complimentary bends. How are the roots? On my trees, I periodically root pruned and brushed soil away while in the ground to push roots in the right directions around the tree....using small stones and popsicle sticks. Making direction corrections where needed. I did my best to create a full circle of roots around the tree...simply because I didn’t know what might be the front while it was growing out and telling me what it wanted to do.

Just for reference.....here’s photos of the Hackberry year 2012 (the stick) and the trunk 2017. It took awhile I think because I kept it, along with others, in a small plastic pot, upsized the pot after one year, upsized again.....and then got smart and put in the ground. It’s ready for trunk chopping this spring. Grew really fast once in the ground. Really fast.

 

[justBonsai]

Me...I like larger sized Hackberry trees. I have grounds to grow them out around me. I started a Celtis Sinensis Hackberry 1/4 stick in 2012. That Hackberry trunk at the base is 5.5” diameter today. When I show more Nabari the base should be at least 7”. So....it’s gonna come down to what you like really....Big? Medium? Small?

It appears like you have a good structure started with some complimentary bends. How are the roots? On my trees, I periodically root pruned and brushed soil away while in the ground to push roots in the right directions around the tree....using small stones and popsicle sticks. Making direction corrections where needed. I did my best to create a full circle of roots around the tree...simply because I didn’t know what might be the front while it was growing out and telling me what it wanted to do.

Just for reference.....here’s photos of the Hackberry year 2012 (the stick) and the trunk 2017. It took awhile I think because I kept it, along with others, in a small plastic pot, upsized the pot after one year, upsized again.....and then got smart and put in the ground. It’s ready for trunk chopping this spring. Grew really fast once in the ground. Really fast.

Nice, the nebari is actually very good. Lots of usable surface roots and flare. I'll probably let this one grow a bit bigger then.

 

[Eric Group]

I picked up a nice hackberry recently but I'm unsure of what to do with it. Should I chop and begin development as a shohin or should I let it send some runners in the ground and aim for a bigger tree? Trunk is about 1.25 inches. These seem to do well in Socal and grow fast too so it'll be a fun project.

View attachment 173345

Nice little tree- good little flare at the base, looks like mature bark is starting to come on...

Biggest issue is zero taper- that will be hard to fix..

All I can recommend is a chop and starting over basically if the taper is a concern to you as well. Should be pretty quick to heal and smooth the transition if they grow so fast in your area... hate to lose all that low branching but the lack of movement and taper will always be glaring if you keep it as is. Your choice obviously.

You CAN try to remove that large sacrifice branch at the top, and replace with a lower one to thicken the lower trunk, but that is a slow process and with the top as thick as it is, may not ever get you where you want to be... and would wind up leaving a massive scar anyway when you remove the lower branch after growing it out..

 

[Anthony]

You could try this -

1] - lowest branch to thicken the trunk.

2] Develop the top with branchlets.

 

[iant]

I like the tree. If it were mine, I’d probably work on making the apex transition super smooth (remove the sacrifice,) then choose only one of the branches where you have two or three at a node. Then just work on ramification. I’m fine with a more slender tree sometimes. This tree already has a nice balance and good branch choices. You can choose a more clumsy hackberry to grow out and chop. Imho.
Looks good,
Ian

 

[JudyB]

can you take photos of the tree from other sides? There may be more than this side to work with.

 

[sorce]

Every which way eh?

I like a chop above the right branch below the bulge.

Using the then, "subtrunks" to create taper.

Great tree. Amen for a little bigger...but carefully, to get that good bark!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

create taper.

I guess not create , like for the main trunk....but.
Be. The taper.

Your next segments.

Sorce

 

[bonsaibp]

Nice little tree- good little flare at the base, looks like mature bark is starting to come on...

Biggest issue is zero taper- that will be hard to fix..

All I can recommend is a chop and starting over basically if the taper is a concern to you as well. Should be pretty quick to heal and smooth the transition if they grow so fast in your area... hate to lose all that low branching but the lack of movement and taper will always be glaring if you keep it as is. Your choice obviously.

You CAN try to remove that large sacrifice branch at the top, and replace with a lower one to thicken the lower trunk, but that is a slow process and with the top as thick as it is, may not ever get you where you want to be... and would wind up leaving a massive scar anyway when you remove the lower branch after growing it out..

Just need a couple of lower branches to grow wild for a year or two to thicken the lower part. These make good big trees but I think really shine as a more slender feminine tree.
Tieball did your's come from me?

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I would not chop low. It has decent taper and a base. Wouldn't grow it out either.
I'm with @bonsaibp .

 

[JudyB]

Agree with Ian, BP and TP on this one. I have a twin trunk hackberry in the feminine form, and it works very well. The leaves are delicate looking and well in scale with a smaller tree also.

 

[justBonsai]

Just need a couple of lower branches to grow wild for a year or two to thicken the lower part. These make good big trees but I think really shine as a more slender feminine tree.
Tieball did your's come from me?

Agree with Ian, BP and TP on this one. I have a twin trunk hackberry in the feminine form, and it works very well. The leaves are delicate looking and well in scale with a smaller tree also.

I would not chop low. It has decent taper and a base. Wouldn't grow it out either.
I'm with @bonsaibp .

I like the tree. If it were mine, I’d probably work on making the apex transition super smooth (remove the sacrifice,) then choose only one of the branches where you have two or three at a node. Then just work on ramification. I’m fine with a more slender tree sometimes. This tree already has a nice balance and good branch choices. You can choose a more clumsy hackberry to grow out and chop. Imho.
Looks good,
Ian

Thanks for the suggestions. The current form is nice and I do prefer more graceful trees.

My initial intention was never to chop low, but just to cut back the leader and begin working on the apex. I was just unsure of whether to let the top leader keep running or to cut it back and begin developing the tree.

My tentative plan would be to cut back the leader this winter, repot and begin some nebari development, and to allow low runners to develop in spring. Should I forgo the repotting to allow the runners to grow stronger or would I still be okay? I figure that these grow well here and with Socal's long growing season I have more than enough time to let the tree establish and have low shoots run and thicken.

 

[Tieball]

Just need a couple of lower branches to grow wild for a year or two to thicken the lower part. These make good big trees but I think really shine as a more slender feminine tree.
Tieball did your's come from me?

@bonsaibp Yes it did. And you demonstrated the angle planting and root pruning for me in that small plastic pot that the tree stayed in for the next season. I learned a lot in that front working area of your nursery. This was the smallest tree. You cut off most all of the tree top. You showed me various steps about the treatment of roots and tap roots. Yes...I had my doubts...but I trusted your experience. And...you were right....it grew very well. You also left me with steps I should follow to continue growing it out. I remember it well...and appreciate your extra effort and especially that you took some time and shared your knowledge.

 

[Lazylightningny]

You have a lot to work with there. I don't think you have to do anything radical, just work with what you have and you'll have a really nice little tree.

 

[bonsaibp]

Thanks for the suggestions. The current form is nice and I do prefer more graceful trees.

My initial intention was never to chop low, but just to cut back the leader and begin working on the apex. I was just unsure of whether to let the top leader keep running or to cut it back and begin developing the tree.

My tentative plan would be to cut back the leader this winter, repot and begin some nebari development, and to allow low runners to develop in spring. Should I forgo the repotting to allow the runners to grow stronger or would I still be okay? I figure that these grow well here and with Socal's long growing season I have more than enough time to let the tree establish and have low shoots run and thicken.

I'd cut leader and repot now. Its got low shoots just let them grow unchecked this year and maybe next.

 

[justBonsai]

Chopped and repotted. There were some huge tap roots that I had to clean up. Screwed on a board and planted in a new grow box I made.

 

[sorce]

Chopped and repotted.

Ha! California!

Didn't figure on this happening now!

Nice!

Sorce

 

[justBonsai]

Ha! California!

Didn't figure on this happening now!

Nice!

Sorce

The day time temps have been so warm I've started repotting everything already. Ideally I should of waited a few weeks longer for buds to swell but I'll be busy the next 2 months and won't get another chance.

 

[Tieball]

Wondering: Does the board the roots are screwed into significantly reduce or impede drainage?