Eisei-En summer sale

[IzzyG]

this could've been a really interesting thread if we had discussed the trees

I’ll take you up on that! There were 2 other trees that I had my eye on but this one in particular was an interesting thought exercise.

Engelmann spruce:



Design wise, I was contemplating 2 options:

Easy option is obviously to set that lowest left branch as a defining branch and follow the angle of descent for the rest. The natural branch placement makes it an easy candidate for this particular design. However, the harmonious design option becomes an issue with the weaker base. I didn’t feel like the base as it’s potted makes sense for an aggressive left lean:




The alternative I had was to offset the weight of a harmonious design by creating a secondary apex as a Kai-shieda(sp?):



It allows for an asymmetrical structure that also balances the left lean and direction with a weaker base. The right secondary apex has to be shorter than the left obviously but there might be an opportunity there. Alternatively a third option is to follow the same first design and just direct the apex to the right instead. The point of origin for the apex(beyond the origin of the defining branch) presents an option of a dynamic design.

Thoughts?

 

[rockm]

Doesn’t sound civil to me especially with you latest addiction calling an argument silly is disrespectful. I am Dutch and generally regard Americans more polite and subtle than what you are displaying here.

Pardon me, but your comparison of your $30 and $10 nursery hinokis to what we're talking about IS silly, or to be more respectful (and/or disingenuous--as you seem to prefer), uninformed and clueless.

Everyone here probably has similar finds of similar quality at nurseries as your cypress. What we're talking about is not bargain basement nursery stuff.

Also, comparing prices for imported European pots here in the U.S. with what you get in the E.U. is also silly (err ah, um, clueless). Importing pots from outside the U.S. adds to the costs, carrying inventory does too. I have purchased similar stuff from the sources in the U.S. and in Europe -- paying importing fees as well, so I'm familiar with the costs and bother doing that. Know how much it costs to ship a 10 lb package from Austria to the U.S. east coast? Well over $100...Importing a bulk container reduces costs, but the buyer is still miles above what you're paying to get the same pot in the E.U.

Yes, Ryan marks up pots considerably. It's not a secret. It is what it is. Buy from him or not. For the uniformed, some of what he has is not all that easy to get--for instance, some of the Ron Lang pots that have gone through Mirai were specifically made for Mirai. Ron is also not making pots any more.

I find it curious that some of the harshest criticism about Bjorn and Ryan comes from across the pond, 3,000 miles away with no experience of even seeing any of these trees IRL, actually dealing with either guy, making assumptions (based on photos) that both are somehow trying to rip people off, and buyers of their stuff must be rich rubes. I find all that pretty damn silly and a little bit naive. American bonsai buyers at that level are hardly uninformed or rubes. They know full well what they're looking at and some have the money to buy. In terms of collected material, they understand far more than folks across the ocean who have only seen a Utah juniper, the Rocky Mountains and the American West only in photos.

 

[Shogun610]

This shortleaf pine is my favorite on here. Not going to buy it because I can’t afford it … but if someone wants to buy for me jk.. this is a good tree shortleaf pines can be handled like JBP. I like the angle it’s at but also if you explored the roots you could also change the angle pretty much standing the apex up as a new line for a literati esq tree.

 

[Shogun610]

This is also a great tree. The straight section can probably be lowers closer to the interesting bend closer to the base.. orrr you could rebuild the tree at the bottom left branch , just siphon the energy down low.

 

[BrightsideB]

View attachment 500091
This shortleaf pine is my favorite on here. Not going to buy it because I can’t afford it … but if someone wants to buy for me jk.. this is a good tree shortleaf pines can be handled like JBP. I like the angle it’s at but also if you explored the roots you could also change the angle pretty much standing the apex up as a new line for a literati esq tree.

That one caught my eye as well! Not a fan of that pot but regardless the branching is perfect and that lowest branch creates such a nice silhouette.

 

[BrightsideB]

View attachment 500092
This is also a great tree. The straight section can probably be lowers closer to the interesting bend closer to the base.. orrr you could rebuild the tree at the bottom left branch , just siphon the energy down low.

There is a lot of potential with this one! As I think about it I get several interesting designs.

 

[Wood]

examples the pot might be the bigger part of the value but those are also expensive

Blue Rug Juniper

This shohin blue rug juniper is the perfect starting point for a bonsai enthusiast. With a strong foundation and healthy root system, it is ready for its next steward to further it into becoming a stunning bonsai masterpiece. Species | Juniperus horizontalis Estimated Age | 10 years Time in...

goods.bonsaimirai.com

...

The Chinese quinces

Chinese Quince #1 – Eisei-en

www.bjornbjorholm.com

I find the trees very expensive for what they are but like I said they are in a business and if they can make money this way good for them.

It might be that trees are more expensive in the US than in Europe and I know Tom’s pots are cheaper when I buy from him at the Trophy than what Ryan lists them for.

That juniper and Tom Benda pot is so damn expensive because Ryan has Tom locked into an exclusivity contract in the US. Tom Benda can't sell his pots to anyone else directly in the US. I don't know the details, but I know other vendors have asked to sell his pots and can't

And I've seen that Chinese quince in person. The photos don't come close to doing it justice --it might even be underpriced. Phenomenal taper, completely healed chops, excellent taper, great nebari especially for a quince. Fujikawa-san gifted it to Bjorn. The first time I was at Eisei-en, Bjorn said he'd never sell that tree

 

[BonsaiDTLA]

And I've seen that Chinese quince in person. The photos don't come close to doing it justice --it might even be underpriced. Phenomenal taper, completely healed chops, excellent taper, great nebari especially for a quince. Fujikawa-san gifted it to Bjorn. The first time I was at Eisei-en, Bjorn said he'd never sell that tree

I was just thinking that when I clicked into the link this morning and saw the leafless photos.

That tree looks like it is WELL on its way to becoming an amazing tree. It reminds me of several Chinese Quince I see photos of in JP Kokufu books.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Having only been involved with bonsai for 3 years, I can say first hand that my "bonsai eye" has improved tremendously. I have to imagine that people with BobbyLane's level of experience have a very keen eye for material. No doubt that I would pass over trees that he and others would snatch up in a second because I'm just not yet seeing it. On the flip side, I have purchased trees that I thought was great material and a year later reconsidered and will end up chopping. As an aside, I saw a large JM at a nursery last year that was basically a larger sized bonsai already and I was too cheap to pull the trigger. I now regret that decision.

 

[Ply]

The first time I was at Eisei-en, Bjorn said he'd never sell that tree

This Japanese maple clump is another tree that I'm surprised Bjorn has sold.

He's featured it in multiple videos. He made it 20 years ago from scratch with his father in a workshop by Bill Valvanis. In a recent video he showed he's also got his father's tree from the same workshop at Eisei-En right now (see below). Not only is it a great tree, with the sentimental value attached to it I kind of expected Bjorn to hang on to that one.

It's obviously up to Bjorn himself to decide what he does and doesn't want to sell, but I do hope he's not selling them out of necessity.

 

[R0b]

That juniper and Tom Benda pot is so damn expensive because Ryan has Tom locked into an exclusivity contract in the US. Tom Benda can't sell his pots to anyone else directly in the US. I don't know the details, but I know other vendors have asked to sell his pots and can't

And I've seen that Chinese quince in person. The photos don't come close to doing it justice --it might even be underpriced. Phenomenal taper, completely healed chops, excellent taper, great nebari especially for a quince. Fujikawa-san gifted it to Bjorn. The first time I was at Eisei-en, Bjorn said he'd never sell that tree

Fair enough on the quince, and it confirms that one shouldn’t select expensive trees to buy based on pictures.

 

[Cajunrider]

Fair enough on the quince, and it confirms that one shouldn’t select expensive trees to buy based on pictures.

When I am ready, I will schedule a road trip to Bjorn's place and see if there is any tree I want to buy and take home. I buy tree by feel. It is much easier to make decision once I am right in front of the tree.

 

[BobbyLane]

If you are claiming that hornbeam came from a landscape nursery already looking like the photo that you posted and cost £70, I call bullshit. If you really bought the tree for £70 in the state of development shown in the photo, then you had to go through the wardrobe to get there because the nursery is in freaking Narnia. If you're not claiming that and the photo is actually what the tree looked like 5, 10, 15 years later then you're being extremely disingenuous and comparing apples to oranges. Any vendor's prices are a reflection of what the product is worth today, not what it might be worth years later after the customer has held onto it and skillfully modified it.

I can't afford Bjorn's high-end material. I don't have the financial means. I've never paid more than $300 for any tree, ever. That's what I can afford. But, I've done enough drooling over high-end trees while window shopping online and in-person to have an idea of what the typical price range is for trees like that in the U.S. The fact of the matter is his prices are comparable to what other U.S. bonsai vendors like Brussels, Mirai, Wigerts, etc. charge for material of similar quality. It's not some Facebook scam sale where somebody buys nursery stock, does nothing to it besides sticking it in a bonsai pot, and then charges a fortune to uninformed buyers.

I have met Bjorn multiple times and it was crystal clear to me that he's 100% in the business because he's passionate about the art of little trees in containers. He's not in it for the money. Just take a look at all the YouTube educational content that he's been giving away for free for years. Sure, he's doing the Bonsai-U videos that he charges for now, but the guy has to make a living and keep the lights on at Eisei-en and no one should begrudge him that. I find it rather obnoxious that you're running your mouth off about his prices from the other side of the pond when you clearly don't know the U.S. bonsai market.

Your suggestion that we should all just go searching for buried treasure at local nurseries is insulting because you're assuming folks aren't already doing that, when every serious bonsai person I know has been doing exactly that for years. The overwhelming majority of my trees were nursery finds. I didn't just pick the first tree I saw. You have no idea how many trees I picked up and examined closely in order to find what I've got. Those trees are representative of the most promising bonsai material that was available in the landscape nurseries in my region. I have a few pre-bonsai purchased from a bonsai nursery. I wish I had more of those, but cost is prohibitive. It is what it is.

See this is just silly, I didnt even bother reading the other paragraphs. Most people have seen my stuff around here, didnt think I would have to link a progression thread too. Goes back to what I said about most things flying over peoples heads. Btw thats after 3 years development. ffs too busy waffling

 

[BobbyLane]

this could've been a really interesting thread if we had discussed the trees

I tried to do that, even uploaded that maple and spoke about a couple areas on the tree, mentioned that I'd would of liked to see some of the stuff without leaves. People said I was being silly!

 

[BobbyLane]

This Japanese maple clump is another tree that I'm surprised Bjorn has sold.

He's featured it in multiple videos. He made it 20 years ago from scratch with his father in a workshop by Bill Valvanis. In a recent video he showed he's also got his father's tree from the same workshop at Eisei-En right now (see below). Not only is it a great tree, with the sentimental value attached to it I kind of expected Bjorn to hang on to that one.

It's obviously up to Bjorn himself to decide what he does and doesn't want to sell, but I do hope he's not selling them out of necessity.

That tree is outstanding, I have admired it ever since seeing it, how he made it is very inspiring.

 

[BobbyLane]

If posting this here is not appropiate thats cool, Doug can delete, being that its a Bjorn related thread.
But for those who keep going on about broomsticks and poles, I refer you back to a Mirai stream when Ryan picked up a broomstick Juni and transformed it into something of high quality, I know this stuff tends to fly over ya'll heads

I have been inspired ever since watching the first stream, and some of you may have seen my broomstick Beech attempts where I try to layer off the top part of the tree, because we get broomsticks in the nurseries here too! I look at them in a different light ever since this stream, I actively seek out broomstick material with great multitrunk/clump potential.

 

[BobbyLane]

so either:
a) the buyer was lazy and stupid to buy something for $1700, if he would just look around he could find a diy for $70
b) you were over pricing the tree and making tons of money off a lazy person
c) neither, the tree was the right price at the nursery, and after styling and growing out was worth $1700 because of your time in.

collecting yamadori/ buying stock, watering, applying fertilizer, fungicide, styling, days months years... time in adds up to peanuts on most sales. Someone saving time/money by buying those years of other's work is no dummy.

None of the above. The buyer saw the outstanding potential the tree had and drove 100 miles down the M1 motorway to pick it up and pay cash. The tree barely had any branches and some ugly inverse taper in the top when I purchased it.
I wonder how much it would go for if one of the top guys in the US had it. While its still early in development I can assure you that both those guys would show this with and without leaves. This is only two years work.

 

[BobbyLane]

This Japanese maple clump is another tree that I'm surprised Bjorn has sold.

He's featured it in multiple videos. He made it 20 years ago from scratch with his father in a workshop by Bill Valvanis. In a recent video he showed he's also got his father's tree from the same workshop at Eisei-En right now (see below). Not only is it a great tree, with the sentimental value attached to it I kind of expected Bjorn to hang on to that one.

It's obviously up to Bjorn himself to decide what he does and doesn't want to sell, but I do hope he's not selling them out of necessity.

Just had a look and was surprised to see that one on there, now sold. Yes odd one, that must have had sentimental value, maybe he just got bored of it, doubt he needed the dough, like I did when I sold a bunch of my favs. I think he has a couple more of those clumps from whips in the making.

Quite a few of the deciduous trees have sold now, including this American Beech.
Id imagine this was collected with the deadwood feature, looks very natural...

 

[trigo]

Seeing you guys discuss the prices of these trees in your countries just makes me glad that the trees here in brazil are not priced going with the US or the EU market.

 

[nuttiest]

None of the above. The buyer saw the outstanding potential the tree had and drove 100 miles down the M1 motorway to pick it up and pay cash. The tree barely had any branches and some ugly inverse taper in the top when I purchased it.
I wonder how much it would go for if one of the top guys in the US had it. While its still early in development I can assure you that both those guys would show this with and without leaves. This is only two years work.

LOL most of us don't get tight ramification in 2 years. I could make some money here in the states if I knew.