Colanders: Deciduous vs Conifer vs Evergreen vs Tropical vs Subtropical ???

[Dav4]

Fwiw, I've had pretty good success growing out young junipers in pond baskets full of soil conditioner. The trees grow well, the roots ramify and don't circle, and the soil only gets watered once a day.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I 100% agree that colanders, grow boxes and grow bags benefit most trees. I use all three and I see positive results. However, I also believe some trees do not thrive in the growing conditions they provide. two years ago I started an experiment with two 18 inch tall pencil thin Taxodium mucronatum (aka Montezuma cypress / Montezuma bald cypress) seedlings. I received them bare rooted. Using the same soil mix, I planted one in a grow bag and one in a standard nursery pot roughly the same size. I've kept them side by side and watered them equally during my experiment. The first year the differences started showing. The one in the nursery pot grew twice as tall to a height of about 48 plus inches. Not far into the second growing season I had to prune back the one in the nursery pot (around June of this year). Currently, the one in the nursery pot still has lush green foliage and needs pruned again but soon the leaves should start turning so I'll hold off until spring. The one in the grow bag looks pitiful. Most of the leaves have turned brown or fallen off and the are quite a bit smaller than the leaves on its brother. The experiment will end this year but I'm convinced the air provided by the grow bag does not benefit bald cypress.

As a person with a scientific professional background, I would just like to point that one needs to be extremely careful interpreting the result of this kind of 'experiments'. This, in particularly, has no replication at all, so its results are meaningless (sorry Vin). Differences between the two plants could be just natural variation among individuals with no relationship to growing conditions. Just to illustrate my point: I have two Eugenia uniflora collected as seedlings. Both collected with the same size, same mother plant and put to grow on the same pot. One is, at the moment, twice the size of the other. See what I mean? Same conditions, different growth rates.

 

[markyscott]

As a person with a scientific professional background, I would just like to point that one needs to be extremely careful interpreting the result of this kind of 'experiments'. This, in particularly, has no replication at all, so its results are meaningless (sorry Vin). Differences between the two plants could be just natural variation among individuals with no relationship to growing conditions. Just to illustrate my point: I have two Eugenia uniflora collected as seedlings. Both collected with the same size, same mother plant and put to grow on the same pot. One is, at the moment, twice the size of the other. See what I mean? Same conditions, different growth rates.

Good news is that there are hundreds of academic studies looking at what air pots do. Reducing cull rates due to malformed rootage is tremendously important to the nursery industry. Here's one such reference:

http://ria.asturias.es/RIA/bitstream/123456789/2165/1/Fiield performance.pdf

From the paper:

Due to the slots in the container sidewalls, PF200 stock’s growing media dryed up faster during production compared to stock produced in the three types of hardwall containers. Because of the impossibility of applying extra water to a small number of PF200 seedlings growing operationally among a large amount of hardwall stock, the PF200 seedlings presented worse growth and biomass.

Seedlings grown in the grille-shaped containers produced the least root biomass and least root surface, due to lateral root air-pruning rather than to container volume. However, this container type is the most advantageous one with respect to root system quality.

Thanks to Oso for pointing me to this reference. But there are many others.

Scott

 

[Vin]

As a person with a scientific professional background, I would just like to point that one needs to be extremely careful interpreting the result of this kind of 'experiments'. This, in particularly, has no replication at all, so its results are meaningless (sorry Vin). Differences between the two plants could be just natural variation among individuals with no relationship to growing conditions. Just to illustrate my point: I have two Eugenia uniflora collected as seedlings. Both collected with the same size, same mother plant and put to grow on the same pot. One is, at the moment, twice the size of the other. See what I mean? Same conditions, different growth rates.

I am looking forward to seeing what happens this coming year when I change the growing conditions. The demonstration was for my own benefit and curiosity. I only shared my experience for others to consider. But you're correct, the differences could be natural variations. If this was for anything other than my own inquisitiveness I would switch pots and observe the results for the next couple years.

 

[Anthony]

With respect to growing media drying out -------------- does one just make the media able to hold more moisture?

So for example - colander - when the colander plants began to dry out by lunch time a small quantity of aged compost
and 5 mm gravel was added to the surface. Plants returned to drying out in the evening.
______________________________________________________
Second topic -

Here's one for you all ------ at around 3" tall, and in a 2 and a huh inch x 1 inch deep pot, We can get 40 leaves and
are trying to go to 80.
Adding on the air-pot we want to see if there is an improvement in leaf quantity.
Our objective is a seagrape with 150 leaves and a few more branches.

Trying to get the seagrape to look more like the big ones we have on the high tide lines.

Now if the air-pot can do that. well.......................................... it's the new age of Bonsai for us.
Good Day
Anthony

* We do have 3 to 4 inch trunked specimens on stand by - as seagrape goes.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I am looking forward to seeing what happens this coming year when I change the growing conditions. The demonstration was for my own benefit and curiosity. I only shared my experience for others to consider. But you're correct, the differences could be natural variations. If this was for anything other than my own inquisitiveness I would switch pots and observe the results for the next couple years.

It's good that you want to try seeing things for yourself. And you are more than welcome to do your own experiences and show your findings. I'm just trying to highlight that the outcome should be viewed as indicative only.

Good news is that there are hundreds of academic studies looking at what air pots do. Reducing cull rates due to malformed rootage is tremendously important to the nursery industry. Here's one such reference:

http://ria.asturias.es/RIA/bitstream/123456789/2165/1/Fiield performance.pdf

From the paper:

Thanks to Oso for pointing me to this reference. But there are many others.

Scott

That's good to know. My expertise area is different (marine ecology) so I haven'd done much reading on trees. Still, within the plethora of academic papers there are ones that are better than others. A quick inspection of the one you pointed showed that the different containers used also differed in volume so the results are potentially confounded. In fact, Table 3 shows that shoot height was significantly greater in containers with the larger volume... so are these results due to differences in wall design or pot volume?

 

[milehigh_7]

Fwiw, I've had pretty good success growing out young junipers in pond baskets full of soil conditioner. The trees grow well, the roots ramify and don't circle, and the soil only gets watered once a day.

Nice! That's exactly what I see with every species I have tried. Unless, of course, they cook...

 

[markyscott]

It's good that you want to try seeing things for yourself. And you are more than welcome to do your own experiences and show your findings. I'm just trying to highlight that the outcome should be viewed as indicative only.



That's good to know. My expertise area is different (marine ecology) so I haven'd done much reading on trees. Still, within the plethora of academic papers there are ones that are better than others. A quick inspection of the one you pointed showed that the different containers used also differed in volume so the results are potentially confounded. In fact, Table 3 shows that shoot height was significantly greater in containers with the larger volume... so are these results due to differences in wall design or pot volume?

According to the authors:

In general, seedling biomass was higher in the case of larger containers, though differences were not significant. Only seedlings grown in PF200 containers showed significantly lower root dry weights, attributable to root air-pruning.

I can only say that this conclusion is on line with other studies.

Scott

 

[Gustavo Martins]

According to the authors:


I can only say that this conclusion is on line with other studies.

Scott

As I said "potentially confounded".

Of course if several independent studies point out the same conclusion, then great; Results ought to be general and of wider applicability.

 

[sorce]

does one just make the media able to hold more moisture?

Good point.

And I like what @Dav4 is doing with the junis.

Hmmm...
Don't water on a schedule?

No.

Make your plants fit your schedule and water them to it!

I know that's not exactly what anyone said...
But its what I gathered, and that works for me.

_____

I fully advocate Napa 8822 and colanders.

Neighbor Wicking..until someone gives it a more scientific name....

Defined as....
A soils ability to wick water to areas that dry out faster....

The very reason I can't get behind putting lava between pumice.

8822 sifted alone provides great Neighbor Wicking in the pots.

I believe that's why my 4.5in square baskets don't dry out too fast..
The flat bottom with no drainage keeps water available to be wicked out to the sides as it dries.

Never dries out beyond 1/4 inch top and sides....that's on a hot windy day.
When I water twice.
Regular summer days...dry 1/8in in all around. One morning water.

My baskets....
They are frozen, heaving.....
Probly busted some non UV protected Zip ties....
But my baskets......my baskets are going to last forever cuz I didn't pay a dollar for them at the Chinese food mart.

This is a good thread....
Lot of good experiences shared.
Thanks for showing the roots Dav4.

This spring I'll show you what 2 years in these baskets look like.

Sorce