Colanders: Deciduous vs Conifer vs Evergreen vs Tropical vs Subtropical ???

[just.wing.it]

Are you growing a piece of stock out, or refining it?

Reason for me asking is that if you are growing a piece of stock out, like most have mentioned here they are... you need to let roots run free... which then having them be air pruned is counterproductive. Seeing that it will take much more years to accomplish any substantial growth in a colander.

Unless of course you are willing to make this sacrifice, of a piece of material taking much more years to grow out, for the benefit of radial roots, that can be achieved in a shorter amount of time by first growing out stock to a desired thickness, then doing heavy cuts and beginning radial root work at the same time you then begin to do branch refinement work, or unless you are trying to achieve older fissured bark on a conifer... or trying to achieve roots closer in on a conifer. But, then you aren't really ready for this right if you are trying to grow material out?

As far as having a good soil mix... here again this really is relative as well to what stage your stock is at and what it is you are trying to accomplish. Some soil mixes might not be good for certain types of development.

Actually, at the moment, I don't have anything in colanders. I have several small trees that are in early stages, maybe one that I'm trying to ramify now....
But I hear you, I agree with what you say about letting the roots run, as opposed to air pruning and reducing....makes sense.
I appreciate the input very much, @sawgrass.

 

[Stan Kengai]

Yes, I would expect colanders to only be used in the "growing out" phase.

Can you elaborate on how colanders are superior to pots (or cans) for azalea? And what your growing medium is, please?

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I already explained. If you want more details, try it yourself.

 

[BrianBay9]

can I just add that "tropicals" are as, if not more, diverse in types of root formation and behavior as temperate or subarctic trees. so, while it is beneficial to know that ficus react that way, many tropicals won't. Premna micro for example will air prune.

Good point. I can only comment on the trees I've tried. Thanks for expanding the discussion.

 

[Solange]

Good point. I can only comment on the trees I've tried. Thanks for expanding the discussion.

No problem. Thanks to you for answering in the first place about the question of tropicals. The point I think I was trying to make is that it is not as easy as - colanders work for pines but not deciduous etc. I think one needs to evaluate each separate kind despite a general category. Only then can we actually speak with authority on how the colander is affecting growth, refinement etc. A lot of people don't grow tropicals, some don't even consider them bonsai material. So there is the same type of over generalization occurring in the knowledge base. Cheers!

 

[Adair M]

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I already explained. If you want more details, try it yourself.

Stan, I'm not trying to start a flame war either. I'm genuinely interested in what you like about growing azaleas in colanders vs pots. Do they grow faster? Slower? Ramify better?

My experience with azalea is they make very dense, fine, spongy root systems when grown in a pot in straight kanuma. They naturally build a spreading surface nebari. And, I've found that they like to stay moist, but not saturated. They don't like to get dry.

It's the "getting dry" part that concerns me. I've never tried growing azalea in a colander, but it's reasonable to assume they would tend to be dryer near the actual colander. So, I can see that might make the roots grow better near the center of the pot. The thing is, I've never had a problem with azalea roots getting really long, they've always built a fibrous mass pretty much everywhere.

If you're happy with your results using colanders, by all means continue to use them. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I don't understand what makes colanders superior to pots. For rapid trunk growth, the raised beds MichaelS mentioned would be the fastest. But colanders vs pots?

 

[Adair M]

@Adair M Good, rational explanation. I'd like to share a caveat I've found with azaleas. We know that azaleas are naturally shallow rooting plants. In the ground, their feeder roots are typically found in the top 2 to 3 inches of soil. In training pots, they grow a nice dense, thick layer of roots near the surface and another thinner layer along the walls of the pot. However, when grown in colanders, azaleas seem to view the walls of the colander as an open surface. Instead of getting a thinner (1/2 inch) layer of roots along the pot wall, you get a 2 inch layer of roots along the colander.

Additionally, azaleas in colanders can be watered along with all your other plants daily without fear of overwatering, which I've had problems with in pots.

Stan, sorry, I had missed this post.

I use a rather coarse grade of kanuma as my soil for azalea. It drains well. I've not had an issue with overwatering.

What do you use for your soil medium? That might be the difference.

 

[Anthony]

For what it is worth,

[1] We have an Azalea from Lafayette, Louisiana, coarse big leaf and say, purple flowers since 1980,
it grows in a large tub pot, soil is just peat moss and perlite.
It spreads by suckers and flowers from Christmas until around March.

Repotting is just lift and cut, replace with fresh soil mix.

One of the older [ 1985 ] books just suggests ----------- the pie cut method.

Asking the nursery when next they purchase from Miami, to look for small leaf varieties to test.

We also have a red, and a pink.

[2] Tropicals for us, apart from Ficus types, air prune. We don't make it a habit of placing plants close
enough to touch each other. Easy for insects and diseases to have fun.

Thanks Michael, something to work towards.
Good Day
Anthony


Should be very easy to identify -----------

 

[Anthony]

Hmm, tropicals not suitable as Bonsai ----------- hmmmm

Perhaps it is because most of the tropical work features coarse trees and therefore coarse work.

Example ------ love ficus -------- but it can be a very coarse tree.
Or love Pemphis, but so many do the wanna be a Shimpaku [ shh, same for Buttonwood ]
Oh yes and Seagrape. oh to see one like those on our beaches.

Need some refined of leaf, branch and root tropicals.
Good Day
Anthony

* Should be an interesting topic ---------- highly refined tropicals.

 

[just.wing.it]

For what it is worth,

[1] We have an Azalea from Lafayette, Louisiana, coarse big leaf and say, purple flowers since 1980,
it grows in a large tub pot, soil is just peat moss and perlite.
It spreads by suckers and flowers from Christmas until around March.

Repotting is just lift and cut, replace with fresh soil mix.

One of the older [ 1985 ] books just suggests ----------- the pie cut method.

Asking the nursery when next they purchase from Miami, to look for small leaf varieties to test.

We also have a red, and a pink.

[2] Tropicals for us, apart from Ficus types, air prune. We don't make it a habit of placing plants close
enough to touch each other. Easy for insects and diseases to have fun.

Thanks Michael, something to work towards.
Good Day
Anthony


Should be very easy to identify -----------

View attachment 125367

Please correct me if I'm wrong...
But the rhododendron you have there is actually, technically not an azalea .
I think, if my foggy memory serves me right, azaleas have 5 stamens.
If there are more, up to 10, it is a rhododendron variety....
I think about it like squares and rectangles... squares can be shown as rectangles, but rectangles are not squares....
Azaleas and rhododendrons are similar but different.....??

 

[Anthony]

Hello just.wing.it

See you have identified it.
Thank you.
Hee hee all these years -----------

Now to get an azalea that grows in the tropics .
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Solange]

Hmm, tropicals not suitable as Bonsai ----------- hmmmm

Perhaps it is because most of the tropical work features coarse trees and therefore coarse work.

Example ------ love ficus -------- but it can be a very coarse tree.
Or love Pemphis, but so many do the wanna be a Shimpaku [ shh, same for Buttonwood ]
Oh yes and Seagrape. oh to see one like those on our beaches.

Need some refined of leaf, branch and root tropicals.
Good Day
Anthony

* Should be an interesting topic ---------- highly refined tropicals.

When I think of a course tree, I think pines. I love them, but coarse habit, big foliage.

 

[MichaelS]

Hmm, tropicals not suitable as Bonsai ----------- hmmmm

Perhaps it is because most of the tropical work features coarse trees and therefore coarse work.

Example ------ love ficus -------- but it can be a very coarse tree.
Or love Pemphis, but so many do the wanna be a Shimpaku [ shh, same for Buttonwood ]
Oh yes and Seagrape. oh to see one like those on our beaches.

Need some refined of leaf, branch and root tropicals.
Good Day
Anthony

* Should be an interesting topic ---------- highly refined tropicals.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...hUKEwjbg43D8eXQAhWCyrwKHaTSDYwQsAQIGA#imgrc=_

 

[barrosinc]

I remember someone posting about tropicals, ficus to be more exact, that the roots went out the holes and did not prune and went into the ground as aerial roots.

I tried colanders for everything I repotted, I got an azalea that dried out very quickly and ended up dead so I stopped using them.

 

[fredman]

I got an azalea that dried out very quickly and ended up dead so I stopped using them

I had the same thing. They tend to stay to dry in colanders for me. They need to be wet and colanders are prone to dry quicker than pots.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I had the same thing. They tend to stay to dry in colanders for me. They need to be wet and colanders are prone to dry quicker than pots.

Completely agree for all trees! Great for having trees dry out and die in Summer weather or creating need to H2O several times daily. Nursery pots, shortened nursery pots, rare Anderson flats, collectors boxes and bulb pots for growing are all that will be found at my place until tree ready for Bonsai pot.

 

[milehigh_7]

You pretty much can't grow anything without growing it in a colander, pond basket or some such thing when it is 130F. When you need to water 3-4 times a day you need oxygen to the roots. I have been growing everything you can think of in them for about 8 years with some decent luck considering.

The other thing they are great for is transitioning nursery stock to something more suitable. I normally take a root bound 5 gallon and repot it with a sawzall removing about 2/3rds or more of the roots then plop it in a pond basket and grow some better roots. Works wonders with all evergreen oaks for example.

 

[milehigh_7]

I have posted similar videos many times over the years to try to explain this but still many folks fail to get it.

 

[jeanluc83]

I have several pines in colanders and a bald cypress.

The bald cypress may throw some for a loop but there is a reason behind my madness. There seams to be two camps when it comes to growing bald cypress, submerged or not submerged. After doing some research I decided to try submerged. I didn't want the drainage holes to get clogged with roots so I decided on using a pond basket. The tree did well last season. We'll see how it does over the next couple of years.

 

[aml1014]

The bald cypress may throw some for a loop but there is a reason behind my madness. There seams to be two camps when it comes to growing bald cypress, submerged or not submerged. After doing some research I decided to try submerged. I didn't want the drainage holes to get clogged with roots so I decided on using a pond basket. The tree did well last season. We'll see how it does over the next couple of years.

Your not the only one, I have one in a grow bag and I keep it unsubmerged except for June-august when it's brutal here. I'm glad I'm not the only one doing it though lol

Aaron

 

[Vin]

I 100% agree that colanders, grow boxes and grow bags benefit most trees. I use all three and I see positive results. However, I also believe some trees do not thrive in the growing conditions they provide. Two years ago I started an experiment with two 18 inch tall pencil thin Taxodium mucronatum (aka Montezuma cypress / Montezuma bald cypress) seedlings. I received them bare rooted. Using the same soil mix, I planted one in a grow bag and one in a standard nursery pot roughly the same size. I've kept them side by side and watered them equally during my experiment. The first year the differences started showing. The one in the nursery pot grew twice as tall to a height of about 48 plus inches. Not far into the second growing season I had to prune back the one in the nursery pot (around June of this year). Currently, the one in the nursery pot still has lush green foliage and needs pruned again but soon the leaves should start turning so I'll hold off until spring. The one in the grow bag looks pitiful. Most of the leaves have turned brown or fallen off and the are quite a bit smaller than the leaves on its brother. The experiment will end this year but I'm convinced the air provided by the grow bag does not benefit bald cypress.