Climate change

ho sure let's anybody draw conclusions about data they don't have the tools to understand.... just an idea, let non scientists do the job next time a space mission or something else is planned, and let's see what happens....
I'm not suggesting that non-scientists should make conclusions publicly or contribute to the debate, just that everyone should look at the data and think for themselves instead of blindly listening to others. Coming to your own conclusion based on real data is much better than listening to the opinions of others even if they are experts. We're all capable of basic scientific reasoning.
 
thankfully i didn't stop my science education at high school level, all the crap you are stating as proofs of your arguments just show you don't have the necessary knowledge to understand the phenomenom you are talking about Zach. CO2 and acidity increases are measured facts, but sure you know better than all the scientists all over the world, and prefer to believe (while science is anything but a matter of beliefs) pseudoscience that was debunked a long time ago. As early as the 60s 70's for creationists who for the most part outside USA are just seen for what they are, a religious sect frauding under pretence of science to spread a religious message (what is the nemesis of a real scientific work). I'm always amazed how people feel entitled to "do science" when they don't have the education for it. Why do people think they can do it? do they think they know better about law than a jurist or better about planes than an aeronautic engineer? ho but science no problem just because i have seen somehting on tv or the net LOL. Being a scientist is a job needing qualification, like any qualified job. What do you think we learn in the tenth of years needed to become a scientist? the most important part of it is to learn how not to be fooled by the various biases in observation, data analysis and interpretation than an untrained person is sure to fall in. Biases and distortion of reality that are not obvious for untrained people and that creationists and climate deniers are happily exploiting to spread their views.
I didn't stop my science education at high school either, but I see you are able to intuit my level of education somehow. Where did you learn that skill? So with my degree in chemistry and actual research experience and even patents to my name I do understand the concepts of buffering and weak acids versus strong acids and all sorts of things. Give me the data showing that the oceans' acidity has increased because of CO2 absorption - from non-government or government funded scientists, of course, we know what frauds they are - and we'll see if you can overcome the laws of physics and chemistry by whatever nonscientific wizardy or rhetoric you'll need to resort to.

They busted the global warming frauds years ago for cherry picking data and even eliminating data that didn't support the fraud. You see, there's a lot of money to be made off of this racket, so naturally you have to come to certain conclusions. Most of these conclusions, by the way, come from or are supported by the same government that lied to us for 40 years about how cholesterol causes heart attacks, and lies each year about how many people are going to die of the flu so they can sell largely ineffective vaccines (on which the CDC happens to hold patents, cha ching!).
 
you sound prehistoric, it's nothing new nor surprising people like you blames real science with what is their own flaws/fraud. I'm not going into an endless debate people like you already lost long ago,
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/7-answers-to-climate-contrarian-nonsense/ (particularly from claim 5, previous one have already been discussed here)


and of course in your last part you make the convenient usual confusion about companies, industries, government and scientists, scientists job is to get knowledge, HOW this knowledge is used to make profits is not in the hands of scientists themselves or again we will already be much more out of an oil based society than we are now.
 
In 6th grade (1989), there was a monthly kids newspaper called Scholastic News. I read a particular global warming article back then, and it was very clear; Florida would be mostly underwater by year 2000.

There were also bold claims about hurricane frequency. Lack of global snow. etc.

Then, as that didn't actually happen over the following years, I imagined some guy somewhere clenching his fist around a piece of paper and having to storm back to a dry erase board to figure out a new angle. Frantic writing. Formulas. Arrows. Aggressively underlined things. Flow charts.

Hence the new term"climate change". AKA: "We're not really sure what the heck is going to happen, or why (because we haven't been so good at calling our shots), but trust me...it's gonna happen. SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN."

A new generation is getting the same shock therapy. And people are positioning themselves at the money trough as people fall for carbon credit trading schemes and whatever other weird financial derivative trading can be made to fuck the people who just want to get up, make a sandwich, and go to work.

The only justified response is lol k. You go first. Whoever you are. The guy with a private jet. cough cough, Al Gore, cough cough.
 
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I wish they would do the same thing for the carbon credit selling people to see to whom the carbon credit money goes. It's time for all of us to reveal the peddlers of both sides of this global warming thing.
PS: I'm sorry I'm still not used to the term climate change yet. I've been told global warming for so long, it sticks with me.
 
however again carbon credit system is not something decided/in the hands of scientists doing climatic research, researchers don't decide politics
 
however again carbon credit system is not something decided/in the hands of scientists doing climatic research, researchers don't decide politics
They don't decide politics but politics sure decide their funding. I spent a few years in the research world and saw for myself how funding can cause bias despite the researchers' best intention.
 
exactly, just look at the links i put above... and then explain me who is the most biased, when the vast majority of climate scientists still claim for stopping co2 emissions when its contrary to politics funding gthem and industries running the current oil based economy
 
It's not an assumption to say CO2 levels are remarkably stable. They either are or aren't. Even the climate change frauds will admit they ate slooooooowly rising (I.e. stable). Good on you for being able to make a calculation.
Good job on jumping to conclusions and putting never-spoken words in peoples mouths. You fit right in with the frauds. ;)
 
exactly, just look at the links i put above... and then explain me who is the most biased, when the vast majority of climate scientists still claim for stopping co2 emissions when its contrary to politics funding gthem and industries running the current oil based economy
As an engineer, I'm in the middle. After leaving the research world, I've spent decades working to reduce emission, to improve energy efficiency while still providing the goods that society needs. I can honestly say that my own work has reduced emissions by millions and millions of pounds, yet somehow we are viewed as the bad guys. Sure scientists can tell us to not do this and that, but then how many of them provide a reasonable path forward? That was the very reason I left research and joined the industries. I feel like we are provide real solutions with best available technologies. I can tell you that the guys I've worked with in the past 3+ decades have invented far better stuff that works than the researchers I worked with in academia whose interest half the time appeared to me to be centered on who would get first name, second name, and last name on research papers and whose name would be on government grants.
 
well it will propbably not be so if they had the salaries/careers opportunity they have when leaving for industry. ;-) And climate specialist study climate, you can't expect them to do the job of engineers to find practical alternatives. Again academic research is seeking knowledge, WHAT, HOW, and WHY things are done with this knowledge is rarely under their control.
additionnaly, i'm not ranting particularly at USA or engineers as a whole of course, if USA remains the second emitter of co2, it's also one of the only country that succeeded in having decreasing emissions in the last years
 
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well it will propbably not be so if they had the salaries/careers opportunity they have when leaving for industry. ;-) And climate specialist study climate, you can't expect them to do the job of engineers to find practical alternatives. Again academic research is seeking knowledge, WHAT, HOW, and WHY things are done with this knowledge is rarely under their control.
additionally, i'm not ranting particularly at USA or engineers as a whole of course, if USA remains the second emitter of co2, it's also one of the only country that succeeded in having decreasing emissions in the last years
That's where I differ with you. 90% of the research I've seen, there is a goal for what knowledge the scientists are searching. With the exception of a few strokes of luck, scientific research normally involves huge amount of thought, planning, investment, and action to get the knowledge we seek. And yes, scientists are expected to find practical alternatives. They are not tasked with implementing but at least they are expected to give engineers something that we have a shot at turning into reality.

Any way, one up on a time my cousin was on a sinking boat with many people on board, including a PhD guy. While everyone was trying, the PhD was pontificating on how best to get the water out. My cousin handed him a bucket and said: "F. your PhD! Bail!"
 
you have this view because you are indeed into a "technological field" and i agree with you on the whole, however you if can expect for an input from physicist or such dscipline, someone studying climate will be of no help to develop new energy technology. I'm a specialist in ecology ecosystems and animal behaviour , but i will be useless if you need a solution to counteract the pollution of ecosystems, you'll do better with a chemist or plant/fungi physiologist or a pedologist.
 
well i agree with you on the whole, however you can expect for an input from physicist or such dscipline, but someone studying climate will be of no help to develop new energy technology. I'm a specialist in ecology ecosystems and animal behaviour , but i will be useless if you need a solution to counteract the pollution of ecosystems, you'll do better with a chemist or plant/fungi physiologist or a pedologist.
Yeah but when I need someone to help me design a leach field to remove pollutants and yet keep it safe for wild life, I expect practical things to come from you.
BTW, yes I've worked on such a project in the past.
 
It was actually my high school level science which laid it out the most simply. Theories differ from a hypothesis in that they can start to reliably predict outcomes. The concept doesn't get a lot more complicated than that.

HOWEVER, the carbon-related climate change science is different and special because it doesn't have to reliably predict specific outcomes. In fact, it doesn't have to predict any outcomes. They tried to do that, and ended up embarrassing themselves. Now it's just "change", and change is "bad". Whatever the change is, that's what we meant to say all along. Their predictions are allowed to be retroactive or something.

No.

Climate gamblers. There. That's a more apt description. That's my fair way of saying that people can actually be pretty good at gambling. It's just they have to accept their actual peers are bookies like Jimmy the Greek, and not scientists like Marie Curie.
 
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Cajunrider again i'm ok with that, i will be able to work to tell is a depollution technique is effective and safe or what aspect of it should be improved in a given environment, but again on the technical aspect of it will be of no use, that's what i meant.

A for Gorilla complete BS, earth is dying because we are indeed Unable to change/too slow to change, not the reverse
 
well look at the state of most ecosystems, the loss of diversity, the global pollution, quite looks like it ....even if the expression may be emphatic (of course earth will not die, just life as we know it) people tend to forget all we drink, eat or use comes from this more and more degraded world, but who cares it will never have consequences on us (magical thinking at its best).
 
The earth isn't dying, we are killing it. Well, of course that is an exaggeration in some ways, as it is highly unlikely that we will manage to destroy all life on earth. But we are certainly working to make it uninhabitable for ourselves. Even if some of our thinking on global warming/climate change isn't correct, I fail to see how any sane/logical/intelligent/educated person can dismiss our impact on the planet and argue against the need to make significant changes. At some point you have to look at the evidence (which includes rising co2 and temperatures, melting glaciers, rising sea level, shifting climate zones, etc) and make the decision to take action based on our best/current understanding of the processes involved. If it turns out wrong (maybe some other unaccounted for factor is driving much of the climate change), the actions that are being proposed are still beneficial to our continued existence.

You know, this stuff used to bother me a lot, but I've come to a somewhat selfish conclusion about it. I'm 56 now and my wife and I chose not to have children. So really, why should I worry about the future of the planet? I don't have any offspring who will have to deal with the consequences, and in the 20-40 years I probably have left, I don't think the impacts will be large enough to severely impact the quality of my life (I could be wrong about that). It does sadden me though, to think of what future generations - many of your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren - will have to deal with.
 
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