Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
OR----an indoctrinated following that mindlessly think solving problems means attacking others of differing points of view.
Climate change
- Thread starter Cypress187
- Start date
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Good.
I won't either.
It shows people with different opinions can eventually agree on the same conclusion.
I'm very pessimistic for the future of the Earth, but I still have hope in mankind's evolution...
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
When calculating the demand of crude oil worldwide, which was 99.3 million barrels per day in 2018.. One can imagine on the scale of this.
99300000 barrels x 42 gallons a barrel x 365 days = 1522269000000 gallons a year.
That's 99300000 x 365 / 3.15 = 11506190476.19 tonnes of previously stored CO2 that enter the atmosphere.
That's 31523 times weight of the empire state building, a year. Try to visualize grinding down a building like that and scatter the dust in the wind, 86 times a day, every day of the year.
It's hard to imagine that it does not have any effect.
And I'm not even incorporating coal, the burning of waste and/or thawing permafrost and volcanoes into this.
We're doomed. But I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
99300000 barrels x 42 gallons a barrel x 365 days = 1522269000000 gallons a year.
That's 99300000 x 365 / 3.15 = 11506190476.19 tonnes of previously stored CO2 that enter the atmosphere.
That's 31523 times weight of the empire state building, a year. Try to visualize grinding down a building like that and scatter the dust in the wind, 86 times a day, every day of the year.
It's hard to imagine that it does not have any effect.
And I'm not even incorporating coal, the burning of waste and/or thawing permafrost and volcanoes into this.
We're doomed. But I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
papymandarin
Shohin
what amazes me is that even without discussing the science of it, i don't understand that people with some decades of age don't just SEE, comparing now with their memories that climate has changed already. I remember waiting for school bus with my foot in 20-40 cm of snow for several months in winter, we were doing ski even if we were not leaving in mountains, while we barely had a few cm of snow for a few days before it melts in the last winters. I remember the abundance of birds and insects in the fields around my parents place, now there are dozens of species of birds/insects i have not seen for years , i have now in my gardens plants that when i was a child were considered too tropical to cultivate outside year round....i could give countless another examples. Are people just blind or unwilling to face the truth?
cbroad
Omono
I'm probably going to regret weighing in here, but last night I was watching some videos about redating the age of the Sphinx, and how some geologists believe it was built a lot earlier than 4,000 or 5,000 b.c.
They go on to say what could have brought us out of the last ice age (younger dryas period). One thought was an extended period of coronal mass ejections from the sun/increased sun spot activity lasting a couple thousand years, which would destabilize our climate here on Earth, and cause our environment to warm significantly.
One scientist named Robert Schoch, says Earth hasn't seen this level of recent sun spot activity since about 12,000 years ago, which supposedly brought us out of the ice age.
On the video I was watching he put up some graphs of sun spot activity starting at 10,000 years ago to present time. These graphs look VERY similar to the graphs shown for increased CO2 levels and increased temperatures for present times. Could this recent coronal up swing be the cause of our current warming??? I don't know, but these graphs look pretty similar...
They go on to say what could have brought us out of the last ice age (younger dryas period). One thought was an extended period of coronal mass ejections from the sun/increased sun spot activity lasting a couple thousand years, which would destabilize our climate here on Earth, and cause our environment to warm significantly.
One scientist named Robert Schoch, says Earth hasn't seen this level of recent sun spot activity since about 12,000 years ago, which supposedly brought us out of the ice age.
On the video I was watching he put up some graphs of sun spot activity starting at 10,000 years ago to present time. These graphs look VERY similar to the graphs shown for increased CO2 levels and increased temperatures for present times. Could this recent coronal up swing be the cause of our current warming??? I don't know, but these graphs look pretty similar...
papymandarin
Shohin
usual argument of denialist....
https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
peterbone
Mame
Interesting, but an increase in number of sunspots doesn't relate directly to the irradiance from the sun. The following graph shows that the recent solar irradiance is decreasing, while global temperatures are increasing.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
Melospiza
Shohin
The sad fact is that when I come to these sort of threads, I lose respect that I gain for users in other tree-related threads. It has been a challenge seeing the same users who give gracious, well-thought advice on growing and shaping trees ranting and raving about tyranny, global conspiracies, liberals and fluoride. I haven't commented on other threads like this one based on past experience on other sites, but I would like to say that as much as you feel in the right, your opinion is incorrect and you are in the minority, world-wide and even in the US. There isn't a climate-change debate going on in the world outside the USA, not because people elsewhere in the world are less conspiracy-minded, but because there isn't such a well-organized and lucrative nexus between fear-mongering TV and talk-radio, identity politics and politicians who are happy to exploit it. (I use fear-mongering here to refer to people who fear climate science is a plot to diminish US autonomy or individual freedom)
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BuckeyeBonsai
Seedling
My favorite part about climate debates is when I acknowledge and accept anthropogenic climate change, debate certain points on the subject, and then get labeled a climate change denier anyway. Environmentalists sure know how to make friends.
Zach Smith
Omono
It sounds like you may be making a common mistake in assuming all the nutritious CO2 gets belched into the atmosphere and just stays there heating things up. Between the oceans and green plants, atmospheric CO2 remains at a remarkably stable level. It's almost as is some vast intelligence designed everything ;-).
BuckeyeBonsai
Seedling
Careful! they'll dismiss your argument out of hand for saying something like that!
Zach Smith
Omono
That's because you're debating a speculative hypothesis for scientific investigation while they're debating political power disguised as science. Meeting them halfway means you get to squeeze the trigger of the gun they're holding to your head.
Zach Smith
Omono
Yeah, I can hear the incoming now.Careful! they'll dismiss your argument out of hand for saying something like that!
papymandarin
Shohin
haaa intelligent design, the new avatar of creationism lol
oh and the observed acidification of oceans because of all the excess co2 it has absorbed will of course have no consequences at all (the main factor into marine life destruction during permian extinction again) because co2 is "not a pollutant"
always the same argument
i'm not even surprised to see so much identity between these two fraudulous pseudo sciences, the root is the same
oh and the observed acidification of oceans because of all the excess co2 it has absorbed will of course have no consequences at all (the main factor into marine life destruction during permian extinction again) because co2 is "not a pollutant"
always the same argument
i'm not even surprised to see so much identity between these two fraudulous pseudo sciences, the root is the same
papymandarin
Shohin
and atmospheric co2 is not stable at all except in your head
Lazylightningny
Masterpiece
What would you say that we're not doing right? Specific examples would be appreciated.
Thank you. I needed a good laugh!
papymandarin
Shohin
political power disguised as science? since when politics have really listen scientists about climate change or environment in the 50 last years?, CO2 emissions are still increasing now, that's laughable
talk about disguise , you are the religious power disguised as science, climate denier and creationist alike....
talk about disguise , you are the religious power disguised as science, climate denier and creationist alike....
amatbrewer
Shohin
I know I am going to regret jumping into this (despite not taking a side) but as I work with statistics in my paying job every single day so here it goes...
"there are three types of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Here is a humorous example why those ignorant of statistics should avoid using, interpreting, or worse arguing about them.
Please! I beg of you, leave it to the professionals.
"there are three types of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Here is a humorous example why those ignorant of statistics should avoid using, interpreting, or worse arguing about them.
Please! I beg of you, leave it to the professionals.
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
What's your source? Fox News? Oh, All right.
It's a very simplistic vision of how things work.
O2 can become O3, C can become CO2, etc.
Less CO2 in the sea and more CO2 in the air, OK, that's the same level of CO2. OK, evolution may go backwards too : but if you regress to fish because there's too much CO2 in the atmosphere, you'll find there's more CO2 in the water. Both are deadly, aren't they?
So what you're saying makes no sense. It's ideology, not a valid argument, not science.
If that's what you
To me it is pretty obvious that if "some vast intelligence designed everything", this "Vast Intelligence" has a mean sense of humour, or they was totally pissed.
It's that kind of "arguments" that definitely turned me away from all forms of religion.
Now I don't believe any longer that our world was created in 6 days some 6,000 years ago, nor that Adam and Eve joyfully rode dinosaurs when going to buy semi-automatics and ammos at the local w*lm*rt
I realised early that this was all nice stories that cavemen and cavewomen invented to feel safer, and to explain what science ouldn't decypher at a time when people had hardly discovered how to make metal tools.
I mean, I don't mind people believing in whatever "vast intelligence" they like, it's a good crutch when someone you love dies, but basing a reflexion on apocryph texts transmitted orally before the invention of the wheel, and then written much, much later by several "scribes", writing down what "priests" would tell them seems to me very weak, very feeble.
It's a bit like the "gun debate" : when there's no one else to kill, kill yurself? Actually, it's the same kind of logic. Praise Jim Jones, he was a prophet, collective suicide is redemption!
"Vast intelligence"...
And if we started by "Common sense"?...
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Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I did my best to not assume anything, apart from the "we're all doomed" but then again, we are.. I showed a calculation, that's all. The rest of the assumptions are yours, and yours only.