justBonsai
Omono
This is great, I love the JMP data analysis. Similar to the last expo I felt strongly that 5-7 trees in the lower distribution should not have been in this show.
Analyzing PBE 2024 Judging Data
- Thread starter NaoTK
- Start date
justBonsai
Omono
One thought I had, that by having entrant based judging there is a slight bias towards trees with more surface impact value. (e.g strong trunk, interesting features, deadwood, dynamic lines). The cryptomeria, based off shear cultivated quality and time was definitely best in show and typically would have had been the category winner as well. Its notable that the distribution highlighted a greater quantity of allocated 3s relative to the hornbeam as it means that it's age/technique/cultivated quality did not register as significant or superior to comparable trees.
None of the shohin displays were good this show in terms of tree relation and individual tree quality (excluding that ito and elm you referenced). I believe the judging input provided by Jonas that you could consider the ranking of the trees relative to its group, as opposed to an absolute scaling (5 is idealized best tree/display irrespective if it is present at the show or not) contributed to point variability in these entries as well. I assigned each group an idealized, imaginary 5 entry then ranked trees off a demerit system.
From a professional bias I would weigh the technique and long term cleanliness/execution of it (if this is done well it will have the mochi komi and feel old/settled), then how effectively the tree is conveyed (design cohesiveness and impact), then the presentation and display as a whole. For me it is problematic that even if the design concept is good or executed well, if the tree lacks maturity as bonsai it should be not be exhibited at a national level show. If you are unable to successfully cultivate your tree long term, gaining submission off appearance/aesthetic alone would be akin to treating bonsai as a static sculpture and art. Which is not the case since we use living plant material.
It is debatable if the show was judged only by professionals if the point allocation would be more discerning or precise, but I would say at least those who had apprenticed in Japan would have a similar bias to mine. The value in having entrant based judging, despite more variable scoring, is that the community engagement level is higher and perhaps you are providing greater educational value to participants vs a subset of individuals.
None of the shohin displays were good this show in terms of tree relation and individual tree quality (excluding that ito and elm you referenced). I believe the judging input provided by Jonas that you could consider the ranking of the trees relative to its group, as opposed to an absolute scaling (5 is idealized best tree/display irrespective if it is present at the show or not) contributed to point variability in these entries as well. I assigned each group an idealized, imaginary 5 entry then ranked trees off a demerit system.
From a professional bias I would weigh the technique and long term cleanliness/execution of it (if this is done well it will have the mochi komi and feel old/settled), then how effectively the tree is conveyed (design cohesiveness and impact), then the presentation and display as a whole. For me it is problematic that even if the design concept is good or executed well, if the tree lacks maturity as bonsai it should be not be exhibited at a national level show. If you are unable to successfully cultivate your tree long term, gaining submission off appearance/aesthetic alone would be akin to treating bonsai as a static sculpture and art. Which is not the case since we use living plant material.
It is debatable if the show was judged only by professionals if the point allocation would be more discerning or precise, but I would say at least those who had apprenticed in Japan would have a similar bias to mine. The value in having entrant based judging, despite more variable scoring, is that the community engagement level is higher and perhaps you are providing greater educational value to participants vs a subset of individuals.
Last edited:
Ruddigger
Omono
Well said, Julian. We’re lucky to have your input.
justBonsai
Omono
Agree with some thoughts on contemporary vs traditional. Many people adopt anti Japan principles, but some "rules" is not intrinsic to Japanese culture. They are as you said just conceptions relating to effectively displaying, conveying, and balancing bonsai. The execution of these concepts can be varied in aesthetic and does not necessarily adhere to a strict rigid form. Which is more of a misinterpretation or extrapolation of bonsai in Japan by those who do not understand it. Important that you have believability for a given concept which as less to do with "traditional vs non-traditional."
Brain Treez
Sapling
I was unable to attend the expo, but I did get a chance to see Bill Critchlow's crabapple in person at last night's club meeting. I'd be curious to hear any thoughts on it from those that saw it at the expo. He mentioned the pot inspired opposing reactions from many present.
ZombieNick
Shohin
He asked me about making a new pot for it. I told him I liked the current pot and that there is not one right answer, up to him what feeling he wants to convey.
Colorado
Masterpiece
It was one of my favorite trees in the show. The sense of seasonality that the tree conveyed was just spectacular. When viewing the tree I felt like it to took me to another place - a quiet, dreary forest in the fall. It was perfect timing with the leaves and fruit.
Ruddigger
Omono
I didn’t mind the pot at all. Who could see it anyway, all I saw was fruit.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
I like that display a lot. The colors of the tree remind me of an old orchard tree bearing end of season fruit. The accent looks very much like a bushel of green apples texturally. I would have liked a more rustic stand in some appearance.
Mike Westervelt
Chumono
I like the pot, color is perfect contrast to that lovely fruit also loved trunk and autumn foliage on the crabapple, could use more ramification but
anyone who grows crabapples knows how nearly impossible that is.
anyone who grows crabapples knows how nearly impossible that is.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
What pot! I agree with Rudd. The tree was so well balanced with all the fruit hanging on. The big uro on the front I also really liked. A great tree IMO.
Sansokuu
Chumono
- Messages
- 573
- Reaction score
- 1,715
What was the motif of? I actually didnt get to see all the trees.
When I have the baby with me I tend to get tunnel vision,
Ruddigger
Omono
What was the motif of? I actually didnt get to see all the trees.
It was your signature rabbit and wave.
ZombieNick
Shohin
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Actually the details are the meat for me. Yes, there must to be standards for development of the display trees and basic elements need to be compatible, but the nerdy little details and getting each one perfected is where the cream rises to the top for me.
About the bell. I got a nice response from Bob:
"The 'bell'. When I asked Michael to prepare the tree for the Expo, he offered the traditional accent plant or the bell on the jita. After a few days I really settled on using the bell. Although it was not a traditional accent, it did have cultural and even religious significance for me. A bell announced, captured, and signaled the silence and peace of the moment after it rang. The silence that fills the space of the forested area from which the tree was collected."
It is probably the most conceptual accent in the exhibit. I respect the idea but it does go over the head of most people and makes me question the visual purpose and importance of the accent.
"The 'bell'. When I asked Michael to prepare the tree for the Expo, he offered the traditional accent plant or the bell on the jita. After a few days I really settled on using the bell. Although it was not a traditional accent, it did have cultural and even religious significance for me. A bell announced, captured, and signaled the silence and peace of the moment after it rang. The silence that fills the space of the forested area from which the tree was collected."
It is probably the most conceptual accent in the exhibit. I respect the idea but it does go over the head of most people and makes me question the visual purpose and importance of the accent.
Ruddigger
Omono
Sure, I like that stuff too. My point is, first things first. If the composition is bad nobody will see those elements properly anyway.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
I like that. This is one of those moments where concept is the driving force which obviously can be very powerful, regardless of wether the image matches the weight of the idea. The artist considered all possibilities and decided to lean into the idea rather than present the token response.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
I wonder in situations such as that, how to hint at the significance/meaning when it isnt clear. Its also important as a viewer to view an accent always as a metaphor first, a poetic device to dwell on its meaning before considering its aesthetic.
Similar threads
