Acer palmatum

[BobbyLane]

Well I hope you are exactly right about that! I’ve given it a drastic cut back now, so if my timing is correct, it will hopefully back bud loads now and give me loads of options to cut back to .
This is no short term project and quick fix. I’m in for the long haul and learning experience.

love to see what you did. youve had loads of good advice, how hard did you go, lets see the result

dont worry if it looks like shit, it will grow back. of course, you dont need to take pics of everything you do(like i do) but personally its my way of keeping a log. because im crap at writing long, articulate notes.

 

[ConorDash]

What is wrong with you people.

I don’t OWE any of you anything. I’m not your personal study buddy. I don’t wish to look at your trees. Take some responsibility for your own education. Pay for it if you must but don’t tell me how I have to act. I don’t appreciate it.
Cheers

No one said you did.
Edit: (I had a rethink).
Sorry you feel that way.
Thank you for your contributions, Smoke. Cheers.

love to see what you did. youve had loads of good advice, how hard did you go, lets see the result

dont worry if it looks like shit, it will grow back. of course, you dont need to take pics of everything you do(like i do) but personally its my way of keeping a log. because im crap at writing long, articulate notes.

Thanks. I’ve posted pics, take a look above. I have had plenty of advice yes, here’s hoping it’s been put to good use, but tell me if not .

 

[BobbyLane]

No one said you did. You are part of a forum. I’m sorry to say but from time to time, people MIGHT post pics of trees (on a bonsai forum). I’d suggest alternate means of entertainment, if that’s not what you are looking for. I’m not sure what you expect me to say.
However, im sure all of us are wrong.
Thank you for your contributions, Smoke. Cheers.



Thanks. I’ve posted pics, take a look above. I have had plenty of advice yes, here’s hoping it’s been put to good use, but tell me if not .

ok yeh saw those ones already. i thought you cut back the long straight taper less branches as a few suggested when you said drastic cut back. sorry im off track

 

[papymandarin]

if the pics are after the cut, you did not do a drastic cut ;-) a drastic cut woud be keeping the trunk and the first third of you current branching at most

 

[ConorDash]

ok yeh saw those ones already. i thought you cut back the long straight taper less branches as a few suggested when you said drastic cut back. sorry im off track

if the pics are after the cut, you did not do a drastic cut ;-) a drastic cut woud be keeping the trunk and the first third of you current branching at most

I completely get that lol. The branches are still long, and without movement.. my reason for not cutting back further is simply this:
There aren’t many or in some case, any nodes. If I cut back further, I risk no buds and losing the branch.. my plan is this cut, back bud (=more options), then cut again. This will result in shorter branches, internodes and movement...

Unless! That’s complete gibberish and I’m wrong again. But I thought I was right!
Like I said, if it were an elm, I know it’ll bud. But I don’t know a maple.

 

[papymandarin]

maples back bud profusely, and as i told you previously now is the good time for drastic cuts leaving no bud or leaves without risquing dieback like it can happen in early spring. Doing it in stages will only take more time (=several years) to reach the same point of rebuilding your branches from their first nodes.

 

[Paulpash]

@Smoke wrote about 'knowing your trees', their growth habits and the grower's ability to predict a response from an action, primarily pruning. The Acer family is huge - from the tiny leaved Palmatum Kotohime to the palm sized English native, the Field Maple. You can expect a varied response from each depending on their genetics & health. I know, for example, in the UK the field maple is a beast - cut back to the first set of leaves and you will get 2 inch internodes again - cut back to the 2nd and you create a buffer which absorbs most of the energy - the one behind it will shoot too, with much smaller internodes and it is this one we want to cut back to eventually. If this were a Kotohime you could virtually cut anywhere and still have internodes literally milimetres apart.

Why am I saying all this - hasn't Al said it all? Well no, he hasn't, he can't unless he becomes a full time poster here.

There are nuances in each variety of tree you will grow. If you don't experiment, observe and take note of its response NOONE IN AN ONLINE FORUM CAN MOVE YOUR TREES FORWARD BUT YOU. The guy that said posting failure is good is talking rubbish because, after working my trees for 4 hours I have limited time to post - why spend hours listing the million ways you can get it wrong and just cut to the chase, posting what you know works well?

 

[BobbyLane]

I completely get that lol. The branches are still long, and without movement.. my reason for not cutting back further is simply this:
There aren’t many or in some case, any nodes. If I cut back further, I risk no buds and losing the branch.. my plan is this cut, back bud (=more options), then cut again. This will result in shorter branches, internodes and movement...

Unless! That’s complete gibberish and I’m wrong again. But I thought I was right!
Like I said, if it were an elm, I know it’ll bud. But I don’t know a maple.

here are some options i can see to cut back to for branch taper, theres probably others, but im just using the close up image posted


in the yellow circle you have three branches coming from one, your plan to let these grow out will inevitably produce an ugly bulge. we've discussed crotches and how you only want two coming from one a few times now Conar mate...

the red cuts are either points at which you can cut back harder to a shoot closer to the trunk or a dormant node, im quite certain a maple will bud out at a dormant node. someone also mentioned this is possible in the above comments, can't remember what post. these cuts will likely activate more interior budding.
top of the pic, there are also viable shoots coming from the branch situated to the right of the uro. unless youre trying to grow out the leader there, it can also be cut back to a thinner shoot.
so unless your plan is to fatten up the primary branching then, these branches can for the most part be cut back much harder.

to give you an idea, here's an elm that i cut back to shoots further back, this is a drastic cut back
2017-06-04_07-35-44 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
june 2017 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
july 2017 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
Jan 2018 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[Rob_phillips]

Why dont you take it to Lee Verhorevoort he is in London and he is a professional im sure you could get a lift there from someone or even get a taxi so that aint no excuse.
Trust me spend the money and get a workshop with him

 

[BobbyLane]

a drastic cut back on a trident
IMG_7651 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_7740 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
8cce5d68-0a1f-48c2-8f23-0aade97cca36 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

to give you a further idea

 

[BobbyLane]

Why dont you take it to Lee Verhorevoort he is in London and he is a professional im sure you could get a lift there from someone or even get a taxi so that aint no excuse.
Trust me spend the money and get a workshop with him

there is simply no need to spend money on a teacher, he can do it himself. its all very simple when you start to actually get hands on instead of just talking about it. ive never even been to a workshop or a club.

 

[Victorim]

Hedge it to rough shape now, and when ever it extends out of it a few inches cut it back again, untill the end of August. Then at leaf drop, you can choose what your keeping, wire and big cut backs then. That's a basic plan which will get you options. Still think you need more, and expendable trees pal. Need to get stuck in there.

 

[Rob_phillips]

there is simply no need to spend money on a teacher, he can do it himself. its all very simple when you start to actually get hands on instead of just talking about it. ive never even been to a workshop or a club.

Lol fair play to you but bare on mind What works for you may not work for everyone i for one am happy for the help i have receved in workshops
Plus it is only money lol if its something you enjoy spend it, it is worth it.

 

[Victorim]

Lol fair play to you but bare on mind What works for you may not work for everyone i for one am happy for the help i have receved in workshops
Plus it is only money lol if its something you enjoy spend it, it is worth it.

Bobby is right here, but I know what your saying.

For me as an example, wiring. After endless reading and some wiring sessions, thoughs spinning cogs just seemed to click into place with just the Colin Lewis video, and about 10 minutes with Pavel twisting little bits of copper wire round our fingers. But with out the graft, the work, you can't fully understand. And if you don't understand you can't improve.

 

[BobbyLane]

Lol fair play to you but bare on mind What works for you may not work for everyone i for one am happy for the help i have receved in workshops
Plus it is only money lol if its something you enjoy spend it, it is worth it.

i'd much rather spend my money on trees than on workshops, i enjoy trees. whats worked for me will work for conar too, but if he doesnt actually get hands on and start applying the knowledge being given to him then its pointless really. these are basic techniques being discussed here. he'd be better off spending his money on a few bits of raw material and practising and carrying out basic techniques like pruning, wiring, styling etc rather than taking the said maple to a workshop.

 

[Rob_phillips]

i'd much rather spend my money on trees than on workshops, i enjoy trees. whats worked for me will work for conar too, but if he doesnt actually get hands on and start applying the knowledge being given to him then its pointless really. these are basic techniques being discussed here. he'd be better off spending his money on a few bits of raw material and practising and carrying out basic techniques like pruning, wiring, styling etc rather than taking the said maple to a workshop.

Or he could do both lol.
He could get more practice trees and advice on them whilst at the workshop at his nursery.
Plus He will have better material to work on for a good price and also alot of sound advice or just the reassurance that what he is doing is correct and will benefit his tree.
£30 is hardly expensive for that day out is it lol plus you could not get much tree for that price.

 

[Rob_phillips]

Also connor i think looking at your tree you need to be quite brave with it as alot of what is there now may not be used in the final design.
So having a reassuring expert with you to come up with a battle plan will make you feel better rather than just keep second guessing yourself and getting nowhere

 

[Smoke]

I'm unfortunately going to disagree with you for a second day in a row, again in defense of all of us who think that a discussion-oriented online forum is a great place for sharing both successes and failures, as well ideas, thoughts, and opinions (this is inclusive of your freedom to disagree with that very statement). Why do you keep asking people to refrain from generating and doing precisely what constitutes this forum?

The internet may not have been around when you started out, but it is here now. The internet has changed (and is continually changing) the way we all learn for ourselves and from each other. The internet is allowing many people to practice bonsai --as a hobby-- with the knowledge and skills that were previously only available to people who were willing/able to dedicate much more time to bonsai than a casual hobbyist.

By contributing to this forum you are inevitably part of a broader and inclusive sense of community, a community in which you are free to disagree with in principle but would, by that very act, be operating within its parameters of freedom of expression and the sharing and exchange of opinions, views and ideas.

I hope you can enjoy the rest of your day

No, actually the internet has become a place for people to be taught for free. The porn industry was very lucrative for decades and then paces like Red Tube and Porn hub actually ran magazines like Playboy and Hustler out of business with their free internet. Porn DVD's don't even exist anymore. What the millennial crowd has grown to be accustom to is the free exchange of information via the internet. Want to know about flowers, its there. Want to know how to make a knife, its there. Want to know how to make a fertilizer bomb, its there too. Its there and its all free. Its there because someone put it there. There is lots of information at this forum about how to do bonsai, much of it written by me. I have given thanklessly of my self and my expertise for over twenty years about how I do bonsai on the internet. I also have a blog that has a wealth of information on it about maples and how they should be treated. I could give a rip if you do bonsai like me. I also could give a rip if you feel I don't do the internet to your expectations. Put me on ignore, that's what I do to insipid people such as you.
Anyone that wishes to find out about growing maples can find tons by typing a Google search "maple bonsai al keppler" ****

At the end of the day I go in my backyard and work on my 50+ maples and know what to do. After you've written as much as I have about bonsai and explained tirelessly year after year the same thing that anyone could find with the mash of a button, I will gladly allow you to think you know whats best for the internet. Until you reach that moment, mind your own business...please..


**** How many of you can do a Google search on your name and find many written articles about bonsai?

 

[Smoke]

"Trident Maple al keppler" is even better

 

[Smoke]

@Smoke ......and I have nothing to say or add.

Awesome. Gonna go buy a lottery ticket now.