2021 National Bonsai Exhibition - Sept 11-12

[Bonsai Nut]

Fair use is a defense to copyright infringement, so if you need it, it means that the trees are copyrightable.

Personal use is no defense, otherwise Napster would still be around...

You are mixing two concepts. One is taking an image of a work. The other is taking the entire work. Allowable copying for personal use with music would be if you bought a CD of music, and then copied it onto your home network so you could listen to the CD from any room in your house.

And I would think that people would argue that trees are not, in and off themselves, copyrightable, while bonsai are - in the way that bonsai are akin to living sculpture. Can you copyright a topiary? Can you copyright a bush in your yard that you have trimmed... and decided that it should now be considered a piece of art? I guess so... because what you are really copyrighting is the work that you did to it. But a tree that you haven't done anything to... no. Just like you can't copyright an 'idea' for a bonsai if it merely exists in your head.

 

[Jiminsauga]

Shouldn't he have to box Ryan Neil for it?

Considering they were both hold the movie Karate Kid at high regard, it think this would be appropriate.

 

[hinmo24t]

Considering they were both hold the movie Karate Kid at high regard, it think this would be appropriate.

My money is on Ryan, he seems like a

idk. saw bjorn for first time the other day in national video part 2. tall and strong.
this 6'3 215 lb hockey player surfer would drop the mitts with him, but i wouldnt suggest it

new balance shoe game on point for bjorn too



then again - not the size of the dog in the fight, size of fight in the dog

 

[Nybonsai12]

Was a list of winning trees put out?

 

[Nickagainst1]

Nft a photo

 

[hinmo24t]

Nft a photo

oh God, didnt anyone take photos?



jp, jp

 

[Mikecheck123]

You are mixing two concepts. One is taking an image of a work. The other is taking the entire work. Allowable copying for personal use with music would be if you bought a CD of music, and then copied it onto your home network so you could listen to the CD from any room in your house.

And I would think that people would argue that trees are not, in and off themselves, copyrightable, while bonsai are - in the way that bonsai are akin to living sculpture. Can you copyright a topiary? Can you copyright a bush in your yard that you have trimmed... and decided that it should now be considered a piece of art? I guess so... because what you are really copyrighting is the work that you did to it. But a tree that you haven't done anything to... no. Just like you can't copyright an 'idea' for a bonsai if it merely exists in your head.

Easy--there is an originality requirement--meaning you have to do at least something to it. But it's a very low bar.

So topiaries are absolutely copyrightable. Trees in nature are not.

Any personal use defenses are only those explicitly stated as such in the Copyright Act itself, and aren't the default rule. I think you're right that music recordings do have an explicit carve out. But the RIAA would probably prefer that you didn't have such a right.

I don't know of any such personal use carve out for pictures of trees at bonsai shows.

 

[hinmo24t]

wheres the intellectual property attorney on here?
whole different world of abstract in that sector

 

[Njyamadori]

I think my biggest worry is... who will do this if Bill can't?

I believe this is covered in Ryan’s Neil interview with him . He already has people in mind

 

[Forsoothe!]

No you do not. However you cannot keep people from photographing your work, or taking photos for personal use, fair use, incidental use or - specifically in this case - using the photos in a journalistic capacity as part of their reporting... for example if they were writing an article for a bonsai web site and took a photo of your bonsai.

However commercial use would be prohibited. So to go to a public bonsai exhibition and take a photo of a Walter Pall tree for your personal use would be allowed. But to take that photo and stick it on the front of a bonsai fertilizer bag would not.

That at least is my understanding of the law... but I only had a single class in intellectual property law so I am by no means an expert.

Actually, a lot of trees wouldn't qualify as, "intellectual property"

 

[hinmo24t]

Actually, a lot of trees wouldn't qualify as, "intellectual property"

Then they probably couldn't be trademarked or anything like that

I couldn't see it applied to trees generally or even for the show. Personal info in an image of a shows owner or location posted online could be a case. Or using someone's definitive tree to advertise as your own, like I heard heron talk about once. Even thats a stretch I'd say unless it generated a lot of money for the person who 'stole it'. one application for law I could see is possibly in landscape design and layout for commercial application. All a stretch so thats saying something w how savvy the snakes are

 

[Waldo Street Pottery]

The 7th US National Bonsai Show was great! It was my 2nd time at the show as a vendor and I had a great weekend with sales, feedback and reactions and support of this work I am so passionate about. There were quite a few "new" potters there, ( I think I'm still in this category...) who all show promise toward the future. I was pleased to get to know many or most of them, and with the chance to rub shoulders with legend Sara Rayner and veterans Ross Adams and Charles and Michelle Smith of MC2 Pottery. Having a pot appear in the show with one of my customer's trees was icing on the cake. Nao (Takutake Bonsai) and Justine (Forest Inn Pottery), who both deserved to be selling at the event, were both wonderful to meet. They're both working in larger format containers and both inspiring me and keeping me on my toes. Y'all check them out on Instagram. @ForestInnPottery @takutakebonsai @red_tail_pottery was a super nice hang as well as a great guy. Here's my container submitted in the show by Ken Fahey with his Chinese Elm...

 

[Forsoothe!]

Trademarking and patenting are not cheap & easy, and copyrights are not free, and then there's the cost of enforcement. You have to subscribe to a lawyers service that monitors the marketplace that will notify somebody that they are violating blah, blah. Suing a violator is also not free.

 

[hinmo24t]

Trademarking and patenting are not cheap & easy, and copyrights are not free, and then there's the cost of enforcement. You have to subscribe to a lawyers service that monitors the marketplace that will notify somebody that they are violating blah, blah. Suing a violator is also not free.

True, I know. And if there's seldom a reason to pay for it I'd say the idea of it is almost a wash; for trees that is.

Gotta be a lawyer on here somewhere. Impretty sure intellectual property lawyers aren't bottom tier or super common. Maybe moreso these days w so much interchangeable ideas and online markets though, and general online activity.

 

[Shogun610]

idk. saw bjorn for first time the other day in national video part 2. tall and strong.
this 6'3 215 lb hockey player surfer would drop the mitts with him, but i wouldnt suggest it

new balance shoe game on point for bjorn too



then again - not the size of the dog in the fight, size of fight in the dog

How tall is Ryan Neil? Imagine Bill being a buffer for a preliminary weight in hahaha….

 

[Cable]

Separately... I wish photos were allowed for the non-exhibition areas. I would have loved to see what the vendor space looked like, for example.

Wait, the vendor space was off limits for photos, too? Good thing I didn't take any...

 

[mattspinniken]

Was my first National Show and it was amazing! I can't wait to be back in 2 years. Really nice to meet alot of people from the Bonsai world. Including @Cable and many others!

My only regret was not entering in the auction and bidding on that Climbing Hydrangea of Bill V's.

 

[Carol 83]

The 7th US National Bonsai Show was great! It was my 2nd time at the show as a vendor and I had a great weekend with sales, feedback and reactions and support of this work I am so passionate about. There were quite a few "new" potters there, ( I think I'm still in this category...) who all show promise toward the future. I was pleased to get to know many or most of them, and with the chance to rub shoulders with legend Sara Rayner and veterans Ross Adams and Charles and Michelle Smith of MC2 Pottery. Having a pot appear in the show with one of my customer's trees was icing on the cake. Nao (Takutake Bonsai) and Justine (Forest Inn Pottery), who both deserved to be selling at the event, were both wonderful to meet. They're both working in larger format containers and both inspiring me and keeping me on my toes. Y'all check them out on Instagram. @ForestInnPottery @takutakebonsai @red_tail_pottery was a super nice hang as well as a great guy. Here's my container submitted in the show by Ken Fahey with his Chinese Elm...

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Wonderful pot.

 

[Waldo Street Pottery]

Wonderful pot.

Thank you.

 

[hinmo24t]

Looked like a great time and cool layout