2019 From seed
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leatherback
The Treedeemer
Make sure you jkeep them as cold as possible now. It really is too dark for seedlings and you will get long gangly plants if they germinate in December.
Timbo
Chumono
Hmmm....bad guess.
Chinese Zelkova's are nice also, they should be good for your climate. They need to be inside or protection here, also the seeds are harder to germinate from my small sample.Not if you grow then inside under lights. While i haven't started them this early, I have started some before spring inside, they do OK with enough light. I guess I assumed they were growing them inside?
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Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
@Timbo @leatherback Yes I start them early over the winter and keep under lighting until temps are suitable outside to move them.
Malcolm Dickinson
Seedling
I am trying Acer buergerianum and Ginkgo seeds this year. I haven't grown any trees from seed for ages, I usually grow tomatos and cuecumbers these days! The last trees I grew from seed are Japanese larch and Siberian elm. I gave most of the seedlings away but still have a Siberian elm from the last batch. What growing mediums do folk use for seeds now?
Timbo
Chumono
When I start seeds, I either put them in a plastic bag with a paper towel, or I use some kind of plastic container. Herb plastic containers work great, if the seeds need heat I use a heating pad.
Biggest problem I seem to have is the seeds rotting. Dampen everything with some kind of peroxide solution to keep the mold down. I wait till i see the roots pop out before I plant them in 2x2 or 4x4 containers. This is all assuming they don't need stratification(which most Acers need).
Depends on the tree, for Siberian elm i just use some kind of DE mix. Larch I add more pine bark to DE. Tropical's I add bark, some potting soil not made out of peat....Something like coir. That's me though, I dunno your climate, that's indoor/outdoor mix for me. All depends on how fast/slow you want the soil to dry out. If you are outside in the sun/wind without any covering, DE alone might dry out too fast for seeds. You look it up online, people use some kind of seed starting mix. I guess you could use that, my seeds seem to rot in it, Especially with peat in it.
Asking this question, you might get 10 diff answers!
Malcolm Dickinson
Seedling
When I start seeds, I either put them in a plastic bag with a paper towel, or I use some kind of plastic container. Herb plastic containers work great, if the seeds need heat I use a heating pad.
Biggest problem I seem to have is the seeds rotting. Dampen everything with some kind of peroxide solution to keep the mold down. I wait till i see the roots pop out before I plant them in 2x2 or 4x4 containers. This is all assuming they don't need stratification(which most Acers need).
Depends on the tree, for Siberian elm i just use some kind of DE mix. Larch I add more pine bark to DE. Tropical's I add bark, some potting soil not made out of peat....Something like coir. That's me though, I dunno your climate, that's indoor/outdoor mix for me. All depends on how fast/slow you want the soil to dry out. If you are outside in the sun/wind without any covering, DE alone might dry out too fast for seeds. You look it up online, people use some kind of seed starting mix. I guess you could use that, my seeds seem to rot in it, Especially with peat in it.
Asking this question, you might get 10 diff answers!
Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I am stratifying the seeds at the moment so I have a little time to research a suitable soil.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I generally use perlite as my starter mix. Sometimes 100% perlite, sometimes a blend, perlite:bark:sand, 70 : 25 : 5, sand is play sand or swimming pool filter sand, fairly fine. It is added as the top dress, rather than mixed throughout the whole flat.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Katsura, Japanese White Pine, Pond Cypress, Copper Beech, Austrian Pine 'Dalmatian", Chinese Elm, Parrottia persica, Japanese Maple and Mimosa to date.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Posted elsewhere but this is appropriate:
A review of what I have working as seeds at the moment.
1. Quercus Alba - 3 currently germinated acorns growing.
2. Hibiscus Syriacus - 10 seeds soak tested and sown.
3. Liriodendron Tulipifera - 10 - 15 tree-collected seeds. I did cut tests on a few of them and seemed viable.
4. Crabapple (Unknown species) - 6 seeds soak tested viable.
5. Ilex - 10 - 12 seeds soak tested but no response. Sown anyway. Aware of the length of time for stratification on these.
6. Fagus Grandifolia - 2 viable seeds soak tested and 4 floaters sown.
7. Thuja occidentalis - 10 seeds simply put in the same pot as some other seeds to see what they do.
8. Pinus Rigida - 2 different species, roughly 30 seeds of each float tested viable.
Also some seeds from some berry tree which is as yet undefined. I believe they are some sort of Hawthorne. Also some from a bush from Virginia. Idk... we will see what happens with all of this stuff. Going to be fun just seeing what actually grows.
I would like most of all for the oaks, hibiscus, crabapple, and pitch pines to do well. The rest, I'll be happy if I get something from them.
A review of what I have working as seeds at the moment.
1. Quercus Alba - 3 currently germinated acorns growing.
2. Hibiscus Syriacus - 10 seeds soak tested and sown.
3. Liriodendron Tulipifera - 10 - 15 tree-collected seeds. I did cut tests on a few of them and seemed viable.
4. Crabapple (Unknown species) - 6 seeds soak tested viable.
5. Ilex - 10 - 12 seeds soak tested but no response. Sown anyway. Aware of the length of time for stratification on these.
6. Fagus Grandifolia - 2 viable seeds soak tested and 4 floaters sown.
7. Thuja occidentalis - 10 seeds simply put in the same pot as some other seeds to see what they do.
8. Pinus Rigida - 2 different species, roughly 30 seeds of each float tested viable.
Also some seeds from some berry tree which is as yet undefined. I believe they are some sort of Hawthorne. Also some from a bush from Virginia. Idk... we will see what happens with all of this stuff. Going to be fun just seeing what actually grows.
I would like most of all for the oaks, hibiscus, crabapple, and pitch pines to do well. The rest, I'll be happy if I get something from them.
Timbo
Chumono
Keep in mind, if you have seeds that rot easy, you might be better off just planting them is some light medium. If i put some tropical seeds in a container, they mold easy....going through that now with Enterolobium contortisiliquum seeds, super high germination rate but the seed shells and starter leaves rot easy.
Just a update for anyone doing Taxodium seeds, I got my first one to sprout today after 5 days on the heating pad, doing nothing but 2 days of lemon juice soak and really wet paper towel...no strat. We will see what % I get overall.
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BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
Got my first Japanese maple seed to sprout last week, waiting for the others to follow suit.
eryk2kartman
Chumono
Taxodium doesnt need stratification at all, i was told to soak the seeds in water for 2 weeks and plant them out(change water daily), i have around 100 seeds so will try some that way
Lou T
Mame
Hey just saw this post. Sounds like you have some JBP to experiment with, to say the least. Have you seen this post from Reddit?
Here is the original before the update:
His idea was met with severe criticism from some distinguished bonsai practitioners. Nonetheless, his efforts proved fruitful at least 1 year after. The growth, fusion and development of this “compound” specimen is actually really impressive for 1 year’s time. I have no idea if it will continue to succeed as time passes, but to me, so far so good. This guy’s efforts proved some well-respected people (and their arguably zealous opinion) wrong.
If you saw any interest in this, I was hoping you could do a group-fusion planting of 10 or more trees? Given your “billions,” why not expand on this knowledge? It definitely shows potential for highly accelerated development, especially if these plantings survive past the five year mark.
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BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
If u can graft a plant idk why fusing (approach grafting) wouldn't work. I have plenty almost 1 year old seedlings to play around with I might try this. Might take longer to fuse if at all since the trunk isn't green and soft anymore but I'm not losing much by trying
Lou T
Mame
Yeah man and with a sharp knife just expose the cambium on the bunch and roll. I don’t see why people saw it as an impossible endeavor. Hyper-tradionalists seem to have this idea that new ideas are blasphemy. If the pioneers didn’t try and succeed then it must be a fruitless endeavor. Though beyond their assertions of their mega-intelligence and super-knowledge, history proves that with time and risk comes innovation.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
But what was the criticism? I really do not see the major benefit here..?
You take a few seedlings and let them merge together. So now you have different genetic strains in one plant. And you do not get a substantial thicker trunk to work with. I think it is less than a season worth of growth difference..?
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
The claim of different genetic strains in one plant is not an issue with grafting?
ThirdCoastBorn
Sapling
I transplanted 48 seedlings this weekend from their initial germination trays to two Rootmaker 32-cells; have kept several 'control' seedlings in normal 3" containers for the crapes, Siberian Elm, and Austrian Pine. First time I'm using the Rootmaker, so should be interesting to observe how the controls develop in comparison, especially as I've already started hardening off some of them for outside. I've read several times here that pines and elms don't do well starting under light, so will do another comparison batch in March so I can experience for myself and appreciate for the future the importance of full sun from the get-go.
From the various substrate recipes I reviewed, I finally settled on 4:4:1 bark, perlite (would've preferred pumice but my store's supplier is backordered), each sifted > 1/8" and then peat. Rootmaker itself suggested everything from equal parts perlite and peat to 2:1:1 bark, perlite, peat, while I've been using the 8:8:1 recipe from Brent Walston for my larger grow-outs. The compromise I settled on has thus far needed water around every 28 hours, so seems to be working well; they also got a half dose of Miracle-Gro Quick Start this morning. Some of the empty trays are already spoken for, including three Katsura sprouts that are way too ginger to move yet and five of the species I'm most excited about for the year: Anacacho Orchid tree (Bauhinia lunarioides).
Right now, I have the lights (two 4x2ft T5 HO) positioned between 4-6" above -- initially put them higher so I would have greater coverage area to place other containers alongside, but ultimately have decided against that for more concentrated growth of these trays. Is this a good height or should I try even lower? Temperature peaks in the afternoon at ~78F and humidity range has been 50-65%. I'm currently just using passive ventilation, but will be trying a low-speed intake fan to enhance air-flow for the Rootmakers, so long as the substrate won't dry out too quickly.
This is an all new experience for me, so know I'm probably doing plenty of things wrong and look forward to any feedback/suggestions on where to improve!
From the various substrate recipes I reviewed, I finally settled on 4:4:1 bark, perlite (would've preferred pumice but my store's supplier is backordered), each sifted > 1/8" and then peat. Rootmaker itself suggested everything from equal parts perlite and peat to 2:1:1 bark, perlite, peat, while I've been using the 8:8:1 recipe from Brent Walston for my larger grow-outs. The compromise I settled on has thus far needed water around every 28 hours, so seems to be working well; they also got a half dose of Miracle-Gro Quick Start this morning. Some of the empty trays are already spoken for, including three Katsura sprouts that are way too ginger to move yet and five of the species I'm most excited about for the year: Anacacho Orchid tree (Bauhinia lunarioides).
Right now, I have the lights (two 4x2ft T5 HO) positioned between 4-6" above -- initially put them higher so I would have greater coverage area to place other containers alongside, but ultimately have decided against that for more concentrated growth of these trays. Is this a good height or should I try even lower? Temperature peaks in the afternoon at ~78F and humidity range has been 50-65%. I'm currently just using passive ventilation, but will be trying a low-speed intake fan to enhance air-flow for the Rootmakers, so long as the substrate won't dry out too quickly.
This is an all new experience for me, so know I'm probably doing plenty of things wrong and look forward to any feedback/suggestions on where to improve!
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With foliage, we normally would want to graft a tree to itself to ensure consistency. IIRC with root grafts it is usually less critical.
