2019 From seed

[Leo in N E Illinois]

looks like a large lace leaf to me. Leaves have 5 or 6 lobes View attachment 217625

View attachment 217626View attachment 217627 doesn't appear to be a graft and I'm not sure if it's even an acer palmatum. Its fairly large as u can see. If anyone has a positive I'd on this let me know. I collected a couple hundred seeds and wanna know what I'm growing

At that size and age, a reasonably good commercial nursery graft can, actually should be invisible. So don't assume it is not grafted, but don't assume it is. You simply can't tell.

A good graft, where growth rates of the scion and understock are matched, should heal to be invisible somewhere in the 10 to 20 year range.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

At that size and age, a reasonably good commercial nursery graft can, actually should be invisible. So don't assume it is not grafted, but don't assume it is. You simply can't tell.

A good graft, where growth rates of the scion and understock are matched, should heal to be invisible somewhere in the 10 to 20 year range.

So no positive I'd...?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

So no positive I'd...?

Nope
There are thousands of named maple cultivars, and many more thousands raised by seed without formal published names. I would say it is safe to call it Acer palmatum. but beyond the species name & Japanese maple, no one could say with certainty what it is.

Unless you gather forensic evidence. Do you know when it was planted? Which nursery it came from? a receipt somewhere? If you knew the nursery, you could ask them if they have a record of what maples they offered the year the tree was purchased. You could then guess from the list of what was available. The fewer they offered that year the better the guess would be. The older the tree, the less likely there will be records.

If you take pictures of winter twigs, spring new growths, summer leaves and autumn leaves, then pick up a copy of Vertree's Japanese Maples. You could read through and see which cultivars match the same colors for the leaves for the 3 seasons of leaves, and then 4th would be match twig color. Finding the 3 or 4 cultivar names that would match for all 4 seasons is a much closer approximation. But it would be guessing.

Some point in the future, for $100 or less you might be able to have the DNA sequenced and compared to a library. But at this point in time I doubt the sequencing of any number of Japanese maples cultivars has been done yet. So it will have to wait.

Plant cultivars, with their names, and provenances intact have ''value added'' for having the name and provenance. I collect orchids, a named clone that has received a national award can trade around for hundreds, occasionally thousands of dollars. If you loose the name tag, and can no longer reasonably show that awarded plant that was purchased for say $500, if the name tag gets lost, it will never be worth more than $20 without the provenance. So keeping cultivar information is important if there are plans for propagation.

Whether you have the name or not, the orchid and the maple will be just as beautiful as they were with their provenances. But without the provenance, you just can't get the money for it,

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

Nope
There are thousands of named maple cultivars, and many more thousands raised by seed without formal published names. I would say it is safe to call it Acer palmatum. but beyond the species name & Japanese maple, no one could say with certainty what it is.

Unless you gather forensic evidence. Do you know when it was planted? Which nursery it came from? a receipt somewhere? If you knew the nursery, you could ask them if they have a record of what maples they offered the year the tree was purchased. You could then guess from the list of what was available. The fewer they offered that year the better the guess would be. The older the tree, the less likely there will be records.

If you take pictures of winter twigs, spring new growths, summer leaves and autumn leaves, then pick up a copy of Vertree's Japanese Maples. You could read through and see which cultivars match the same colors for the leaves for the 3 seasons of leaves, and then 4th would be match twig color. Finding the 3 or 4 cultivar names that would match for all 4 seasons is a much closer approximation. But it would be guessing.

Some point in the future, for $100 or less you might be able to have the DNA sequenced and compared to a library. But at this point in time I doubt the sequencing of any number of Japanese maples cultivars has been done yet. So it will have to wait.

Plant cultivars, with their names, and provenances intact have ''value added'' for having the name and provenance. I collect orchids, a named clone that has received a national award can trade around for hundreds, occasionally thousands of dollars. If you loose the name tag, and can no longer reasonably show that awarded plant that was purchased for say $500, if the name tag gets lost, it will never be worth more than $20 without the provenance. So keeping cultivar information is important if there are plans for propagation.

Whether you have the name or not, the orchid and the maple will be just as beautiful as they were with their provenances. But without the provenance, you just can't get the money for it,

Thanks, just wanted to to make sure it wasn't an Acer japonicum and I was calling it Acer palmatum, it slightly resembles an Acer japonicum closemby. Plus I read Acer japonicum leaves don't reduce. Right now I'm just growing trees, named cultivars won't matter much till my skill grows

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I'm also thinking Scots pine seeds

 

[leatherback]

and dogwood seeds.

Hey,
I just trimmed a 2 metre tall red dogwood (Cornus alba?) to a small stump. I could put some cuttings in a pot for you? Will you be at the Trophy early 2019?

 

[GGB]

I'm doing field maple and arakawa japanese maple, after some debate I decided against spruce. I dislike super corky bark on medium size trees (which is what I aim for) because it's out of proportion and arakawa don't ramify as well because of it. My hope is that some of the seedlings will have a rougher than average bark without actually being corky true arakawa. I know i'm really trying to thread a needle here, as someone who is too new to the hobby to be so discerning. but around 4/5 years time I might have something fun to play with even if it's just green A. palmatum heading in the right direction.
winter is too boring not to plant seeds.

 

[Fonz]

Hey,
I just trimmed a 2 metre tall red dogwood (Cornus alba?) to a small stump. I could put some cuttings in a pot for you? Will you be at the Trophy early 2019?

That would be very much appreciated. I'll be there for sure. Already put the girlfriend on "weekend alone" modus.

 

[projectpat]

I recently acquired some keteleeria fortunei seeds that I hope to germinate, because I have had no luck finding plants or seedlings. I have some keteleeria davidiana and keteleeria evelyniana and they are cool trees that I hoped to maybe make a bonsai out of one day. They are related to pseudotsugas and are very heat tolerant, but unfortunately not so much for cold tolerance. The davidiana and evelyniana have rather large needles, like 2 inches, but the fortunei supposedly has like 1 inch needles which would be sweet. There are a couple of pictures of them as bonsai, but not much information. Anyways, these will be my first try from seeds besides some japanese black pine I tried a couple years ago. I didn't have a very good success rate with those black pine, and I hope to get at least one or two seedlings from the small amount of keteleeria fortunei seed I have. If anyone has any advice on a procedure to germinate these seeds that would be great. I contacted Far Reaches Farm for advice, since they have sold some davidiana grown from seed, and their advice was "one month of warm (70*F), three months of cold (40*F) and then warm again". This was not much info, but at least was something from someone with actual experience germinating them.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm going for pinus halepensis, colorado blue spruce and another shitload of juniperus chinensis, and some juniperus turbinata if I can break the seed dormancy.
I might order more seeds over the winter, but that's about it for future planning atm.

 

[MimosaGroveMexia]

I usually collect seeds all summer/fall, then sow the ones that I don't lose before winter. Most will be used for landscape or sold, but I hope to get a few to grow out for future training. So far I have (common names):
1. Bald cypress seeds in the fridge (until I can get a boggy tray set up this week).
2. Pine (unknown type). I've collected some and have them in the refrigerator & still waiting for the rest to be released from the cones.
3. Wisteria
4. Crepe myrtles- sown/scattered in outside seed bed
5. Rose hips- for experiment (all antiques, so not from grafted stock).
6. I have some peach pits in the refrigerator from last summer that I may crack and plant
7. I'm sure there's others in the greenhouse I need to dig out of storage and research.

I also hope to do some hardwood cuttings once everything is fully dormant, just to experiment with. Will also start some air layers the end of Feb.
Japanese Maple, Bald cypress, pine, peach, apple, Althea, citrus, almond verbena, sea hibiscus, gardenia, jacaranda, juniper, willow (i always need rooting hormone liquid so constantly have them growing)

Nursery stock/urban collection (dug up and put in pots or ground):
Japanese maples, wisteria, waxleaf privet, burford holly, gardenia, mimosa (Albi), crepe myrtles, Althea, bougainvillea, nandina, Yaupon, apple, pear, plum, mayhaw, willow (weeping & upright), cedar elm, red cedar, persimmon, rattlebox, pomegranate, and whatever else I find before spring.

Again, most will be used for landscape or sold unless they show potential and research indicates they'll be decent bonsai specimens.

As I get further into bonsai, I'm sure my collection will consist mostly of purchased or collected older trees; but I do like to "create" art, totally, from scratch; therefore I'd like to keep some of the crepes, BCs, albizias, or, other, fast growing species to develop.
We shall see how it goes...

-chase

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks, just wanted to to make sure it wasn't an Acer japonicum and I was calling it Acer palmatum, it slightly resembles an Acer japonicum closemby. Plus I read Acer japonicum leaves don't reduce. Right now I'm just growing trees, named cultivars won't matter much till my skill grows

If you just want to sort out between Acer palmatum, Acer japonicum, A pseudosieboldianum & A sieboldianum the task is somewhat more simple and much more certain. The 4 maples are all closely related to A palmatum.
You need either good photos or just take notes yourself.

Pattern of hairs on the undersides of the leaves - check at least 10 different leaves, notice hairs present or absent? where the hairs - where the veins join or more spread out? These hairs are usually clear as glass and very fine, not easy to notice unless deliberately looking for them. Next you need good photos or draw for yourself the flowers. Notice if the flower stem rises upward from the branch, or if it dangles down. For the seed notice the angle the 2 seeds join, a 'U' shape, 'V' shape, or wide outstretched wings?
Check the key in the Vertree's book, or any good botanical key and see if there are other traits that are considered significant. There may be significant differences in the arrangement of vascular bundles in the abscission scar on a winter twig, also the scale pattern of a winter bud. Accumulate the data, because data from all 4 seasons is needed. Once you have the data, sit down with a key and answer the questions. The key will tell you which species of maple you have.

All 4 listed above look enough alike that in ordinary photos for pleasure an enjoyment, like showing us on the forum, the key details are difficult to see. All for can be confused for Acer palmatum.

Also - Acer japonicum makes excellent bonsai. Why would you think it doesn't ? Yes it tends to have larger leaves, but that is why it is used for medium and larger trees. Some varieties of Acer palmatum have leaves just as large - and they are only used for larger bonsai.

Japanese maple is used for medium to larger size bonsai more often than it is used for shohin. Only certain cultivars of Acer palmatum are really good for bonsai, most palmatum have leaves that require medium to larger size trees.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks, just wanted to to make sure it wasn't an Acer japonicum and I was calling it Acer palmatum, it slightly resembles an Acer japonicum closemby. Plus I read Acer japonicum leaves don't reduce. Right now I'm just growing trees, named cultivars won't matter much till my skill grows

If you just want to sort out between Acer palmatum, Acer japonicum, A pseudosieboldianum & A sieboldianum the task is somewhat more simple and much more certain. The 4 maples are all closely related to A palmatum.
You need either good photos or just take notes yourself.

Pattern of hairs on the undersides of the leaves - check at least 10 different leaves, notice hairs present or absent? where the hairs - where the veins join or more spread out? These hairs are usually clear as glass and very fine, not easy to notice unless deliberately looking for them. Next you need good photos or draw for yourself the flowers. Notice if the flower stem rises upward from the branch, or if it dangles down. For the seed notice the angle the 2 seeds join, a 'U' shape, 'V' shape, or wide outstretched wings?
Check the key in the Vertree's book, or any good botanical key and see if there are other traits that are considered significant. There may be significant differences in the arrangement of vascular bundles in the abscission scar on a winter twig, also the scale pattern of a winter bud. Accumulate the data, because data from all 4 seasons is needed. Once you have the data, sit down with a key and answer the questions. The key will tell you which species of maple you have.

All 4 listed above look enough alike that in ordinary photos for pleasure an enjoyment, like showing us on the forum, the key details are difficult to see. All for can be confused for Acer palmatum.

Also - Acer japonicum makes excellent bonsai. Why would you think it doesn't ? Yes it tends to have larger leaves, but that is why it is used for medium and larger trees. Some varieties of Acer palmatum have leaves just as large - and they are only used for larger bonsai.

Japanese maple is used for medium to larger size bonsai more often than it is used for shohin. Only certain cultivars of Acer palmatum are really good for bonsai, most palmatum have leaves that require medium to larger size trees.

 

[ysrgrathe]

So no positive I'd...?

I don't know what the cultivar is, but I'm guessing Matsumurae group, not dissectum. The only upright dissectum I'm aware of is Seiryu. That leaf looks more like a Matsumurae, see Burgundy Lace for a similar leaf shape.

Image credit: Topiary Gardens. If you are on a treasure hunt browse the 105 maples in this section and see if you can find yours.
https://topiary-gardens.com/store/i..._id=21&zenid=ec3aa76159784b19e7e7fcec42edb78d

 

[ThirdCoastBorn]

Having just caught 'the bug' this past summer, I'm probably over-extending myself with seedlings, but wanted to make sure I had plenty to do this winter in addition to watching videos and reading. I know several (most?) of these won't work as bonsai, but figure anything is good horticultural practice at this point and will give me plenty to experiment with (esp. for leaf reduction! .

Already germinated: Caragana arborescens, Delonix regia, Ulmus pumila, Pinus nigra, Leucaena retusa, Ungnadia speciosa, Ceiba pentandra, Caesalpinia pulcherrima, Sophora secundiflora

Already in cold-strat: Chaenomeles speciosa, Cotoneaster horizontalis, Unknown oak, Liriodendron tulipifera,

Considering: Trident maple, Punica granatum nana, Cercis siliquastrum, Cercidiphyllum japonicum, Gleditsia triacanthos inermis

Planting in a few months: Bauhinia lunarioides, Diospyros texana

 

[ThirdCoastBorn]

Having just caught 'the bug' this past summer, I'm probably over-extending myself with seedlings, but wanted to make sure I had plenty to do this winter in addition to watching videos and reading. I know several (most?) of these won't work as bonsai, but figure anything is good horticultural practice at this point and will give me plenty to experiment with (esp. for leaf reduction! .

Already germinated: Caragana arborescens, Delonix regia, Ulmus pumila, Pinus nigra, Leucaena retusa, Ungnadia speciosa, Ceiba pentandra, Caesalpinia pulcherrima, Sophora secundiflora

Already in cold-strat: Chaenomeles speciosa, Cotoneaster horizontalis, Unknown oak, Liriodendron tulipifera,

Considering: Trident maple, Punica granatum nana, Cercis siliquastrum, Cercidiphyllum japonicum, Gleditsia triacanthos inermis

Planting in a few months: Bauhinia lunarioides, Diospyros texana

 

[BubblePopScott]

Just ordered my self 100 Metrosideros excelsa red and 100 M.excelsa yellow seeds. I'm going to grow a bucket load of bonsai stock, but in particular i'm going to try fusing together a number of seedlings (mixed yellow and red flowers).

M.excelsa is a native where I am (common name pohutukawa, NZ Christmas Tree), and one of my favorite trees. It normally forms around 4-5 trunks and flowers with brilliant red around December. (very much less common yellow, extremely rare white (cant even buy white anymore)

The love the coastal environment, and are very common on cliff tops. A great tree for kids who like climbing, and often at the local beach somone will have a rope swing tied off to one of the branches.

The wood is excellent for BBQ as well.

i'm not 100% convinced on which style I'll go for, but with 150-200 seedlings I'll have enough to play around with.

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

Red, Black, Scots and shortleaf. Let’s do this.

 

[It's Kev]

Wanted to grow these this year, but forgot that I had them. Some sort of cherry. Maybe they make it, maybe they don’t. Let’s give it a shot anyway

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

Red, Black, Scots and shortleaf. Let’s do this.

I tried short leaf pine from seed last year with some collected seeds. One sprouted but died shortly after. I'm thinking of ordering some seedlings.