What We Learned About Bonsai Since John Naka

[Smoke]

Sorry, Smoke. It appears I am unable to keep up with times. I just came back from seeing the new Star Wars movie.

And I drove this:
View attachment 89662

I do try to keep up.

But we're a little behind the times back here in the hills of Georgia. This one has no autopilot.

Thats not a paradigm shift. Thats just another car like any Toyota on the road I see everyday.

This is a paradigm shift. You don't see steam powered cars every day with spoke wheels, not because they look cool but because steel rims and tubeless tires hadn't been invented yet.



Let me go at this another way. You have been in bonsai for a long time. You said you did it crappy for decades before Boon. Now you feel that you have really found the way. Other than repot into a bonsai pot, and wire the tree yearly or whenever and water and fertilize, how much of that is different than what you did before?

 

[Andrew Robson]

Thats not a paradigm shift. Thats just another car like any Toyota on the road I see everyday.

This is a paradigm shift. You don't see steam powered cars every day with spoke wheels, not because they look cool but because steel rims and tubeless tires hadn't been invented yet.
View attachment 89663


Let me go at this another way. You have been in bonsai for a long time. You said you did it crappy for decades before Boon. Now you feel that you have really found the way. Other than repot into a bonsai pot, and wire the tree yearly or whenever and water and fertilize, how much of that is different than what you did before?

Going along with your argument (although I think it's stupid), here is the beginning of a "paradigm shift" in bonsai. Bonsai without pots.

http://crataegus.com/2013/04/01/vine-maple-tower-experiment/

http://crataegus.com/2015/03/18/vine-maple-boot-styling/

http://crataegus.com/2012/03/31/mountain-hemlock-on-levitated-nylon-board/

 

[Adair M]

I didn't say I did crappy bonsai before Boon. I did pretty good bonsai. At least relative to what we have around here. The bonsai in California are much better than what we have here. We're way behind you there.

But, I couldn't get over the hump of getting my trees to look as refined as those I had seen in the Japanese magazines. How to refine. How to "cut back" rather than "pinch". How to properly use needle pulling. How to position pine buds using wire.

In fact, I didn't know what I didn't know. Working with Boon has let me learn things I didn't have a clue about before.

Maybe you know it all. I know I don't. I am willing to listen and learn from those who are better at bonsai than myself. And there are plenty! Doesn't matter where they learned it.

Yes, Al, I guess from the outside, my "Toyota" looks pretty much like anyone else's "Toyota". It's what inside that counts.

 

[Dav4]

I miss Mike Page. He was one of the all time good guys back on Bonsai talk. I hope he's doing well.

 

[Smoke]

Maybe you know it all. I know I don't.

Thats where you keep tripping up. This thread is about what has changed since Naka. Michael said things like soil, and fertilizer and a myriad of other things that have been used in container culture here in America for a century. All the things we do in bonsai we have always done. Nick Lens' work was inspirational, as well as Crust's recent entry in the cup. I consider these novelty pieces and not really in the spirit of a natural bonsai. Others may feel different and I think thats worthy of debate. I am a traditionalist....sorry.

 

[Smoke]

I miss Mike Page. He was one of the all time good guys back on Bonsai talk. I hope he's doing well.

I could tell you stories about Mike Page. Funny too.

 

[Adair M]

If you go back and look at Naka's Bonsai Techniques I, look at the charts on soil. No mention of akadama.

There are pictures of cascades in the tall pots that Michael was talking about.

 

[Dav4]

I could tell you stories about Mike Page. Funny too.

Last I heard of him, he had received one of the awards given at the first NBE. Is he still active in the CA bonsai scene at any level?

 

[Smoke]

After the award in New York his health declined. I know he was not able to walk very well. He did make an award plaque when Bobby Burr died, I can't remember when. I have not seen him in at least 6-7 years.

 

[Smoke]

If you go back and look at Naka's Bonsai Techniques I, look at the charts on soil. No mention of akadama.

There are pictures of cascades in the tall pots that Michael was talking about.

Well Naka did bonsai from around 1947 till 2004. Is the thread about "after Naka" in 2004 or since Bonsai Techniques I?
John used plenty of akadama, decomposed granite, pumice and scoria. Yes bonsai pots have gone thru many "taste" issues thru the years. If they come back is this thread trash?

 

[Adair M]

If you go back and look at Naka's Bonsai Techniques I, look at the charts on soil. No mention of akadama.

There are pictures of cascades in the tall pots that Michael was talking about.

On page 150 of BT 1, John talks about JBP care. In the second or third paragraph, he mentions that in April or May, cut off the new growth, if it's over an inch long. The picture accompanying it show a candle that either has not yet started showing needles, or just about to.

Well, today, we wait much longer. You might argue that "April" in Southern California is equavelent to July in Georgia because of the longer growing season, but you cannot argue about the drawing of the candle(s) he shows he's removing. When I decandle in mid July, my candles have needles, usually about 2 inches long by that time.

Also, at the top of the page, he says to water "the same as other bonsai", then goes on to say that overwatering may cause long needles. Today, we use soil that drains fast enough that you can't "overwater". And needle length is controlled by timing the decandling rather than by withholding water.

 

[aml1014]

You guys know what hasn't changed in bonsai since naka? Enjoy for trees! No matter the techniques or soil or anything, we, just like naka and boon are doing this for the love of our trees and nature. It's unfortunate that we have so much politics in bonsai about what's good and what's bad when we all are in different parts of the world trying to do different things with our trees so who has the authority to tell anyone they are wrong unless they ask for help.

 

[Adair M]

The "after Naka" is somewhat controversial in terms of when "after" should start. I am basing my comments on his books, and when he stopped touring.

Around here, his books are regarded as "Bibles". If it's not in BT 1 or 2, then it's not true. Since many of us did not ever have the opportunity to visit his garden, all we have are his books.

I recall that someone pointed out that newer techniques came about during John's lifetime that warranted a "revised edition". He said he had no interest in it. Too bad.

I was lucky enough to get to take a couple of workshops with John. Great fun. I wish I could have seen him more than just one or two days a year.

 

[Andrew Legg]

Two biggest things that have changed........

#1 is the Internet. It has revolutionized bonsai by providing access to information and in particular, real time information. All you need is a BS filter. Usually common sense does the trick.

#2 is a repository of local experience. I can't speak for the USA here, but here in South Africa our bonsai pioneers are entering old age, and what that offers those willing to learn is a wealth of local knowledge. Chatting to one of them the other day she said "You youngsters are so lucky.....all we had was three books.".

I think the combination of these two points above is the greatest development in bonsai globally if one compares recent years to perhaps 30 or 40 years ago. If I'm sitting in my en working on a tree and I'm wondering how to do something, I can have an answer in 5 minutes. Its near real time access to information and learning. One of the most inspirational people I've met in bonsai was a youngster from a very very small coastal town 1.5 hours north of Cape Town. He'd never been to a bonsai club. He'd never read a bonsai book, and he'd never had any training by a master, but he had an Internet connection and a willingness to experiment, and his trees were of a standard most of us would be proud to have in our gardens.

 

[armetisius]

Too many groupies at the book signing!
Sorry. Sorce

But remember the groupies are the ones that are supposed to throw underwear;
don't lose your thongs by being "caught up in the moment".
On second thought, given that most of the "groupies" would be better than middle
aged men, skip the signing or hire security. The idea of that many BVDs flying is
nauseating.

 

[Nwaite]

I could tell you stories about Mike Page. Funny too.

Do you have these stories printed out on paper so you can take pictures of them and upload them on here so we can see them?

You guys are f $cking craaaazy!

I can't stop reading this stuff but by the end of page 3 I can feel the small amount of intelligence I have draining out of my head...

 

[GrimLore]

1) The USA is less polluted.
2) The rest of the world is more polluted.

Bonsai itself has not changed - a plant in a pot is still Bonsai 盆栽 as it was long before our time.

I agree Al but I really enjoy this discussion

 

[fredman]

Firstly we have to go back to the bare basics. The true "spirit" (for lack of a better word) of bonsai and the reason it started all those years ago, is simply to become one with nature. Take a tree into your care and absorb the serenity it provides. The whole object of bonsai isn't about a tree really. Its a tool to make us a better person. With that harmonious journey together, both become better as they grow...!

As I see it.... the well known bonsaists (in the US) that studied in Japan (i see them posting on their blogs, forums and videos), has two things in common...
1. A very humble, down to earth and quiet self assured way about them. That bonsai spirit is immediately evident in their demeanour..... (that's the vibe I directly get, and deeper reading between the lines) It seems to me, in order to develop that temperament one has to go train in Japan, as that's where the roots and foundation of it is....
2. They all have stunning trees...simple to see even to a outsider.

As to bonsai in the US... Great trees, but if I was choose between training in either, ill run for Japan....for sure !!!

 

[GrimLore]

As to bonsai in the US... Great trees, but if I was choose between training in either, ill run for Japan....for sure !!!

You are to young to understand why you should not - we have what you desire here tenfold...

Grimmy

 

[aml1014]

You are to young to understand why you should not - we have what you desire here tenfold...

Grimmy

Or find a teacher in the U.S. who did train in Japan like I did, and your absolutely correct on the real spirit of Bonsai . we make the trees better trees and they make us better people. I've learned a lot about life since starting Bonsai, something you really wouldn't expect when starting.

Aaron