Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Seen this with Scots pine too
What have you learned from "doing bonsai"??
- Thread starter Harewood Hobbyist
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Seen this with Scots pine too
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
Sure they would.
For the same reason my wife paints. She's awful at it, but she loves doing it. Some people like brats, others are happy with crappy generic hotdogs.
Next time you see someone doing that, look at their face in stead of the tree. Bet you'll see a whole different picture.
AnacortesSteve
Yamadori
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When it comes to cuttings, I have learned so much in the last 2 years, I don't make cowboys anymore and simple things like the blade you wield and the length you cut make a diff as in attention to humidity, I really have some amazing JBP.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
No, see to me. It's about not respecting their own material. At the end of the day...instead of being in the hobby 10+ years doing foolish rookie mistakes. Knowing they shouldn't... yet doing it anyways because they don't have the patience to wait for proper window of opportunities. (A Facebook bonsai group this was seen.)
I don't care if it is mediocre material. If you can't respect it. Taking foolish risks...not caring. Infuriates me...no patience. All that time in and still hasn't learned patience. To solid guidelines to ensure ones tree moves further on it's journey.
I've had one say...if it was better material. I wouldn't do it. But I was bored.
I guess...end of the day...my goal is to have my trees around to improve. I wouldn't do it with my lesser materials either. But not respecting material and knowing it may die...and just not caring. The techniques didn't have to be done...but impatience/boredom won out.
Edit: I bet end of the day...you are right. One just doesn't gain patience...I cringe when they say it was mediocre material...and I seen potential. Then find it died...from their impatience.
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ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
Hadn't thought of it from this point of view. You make a good point.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I try to remember that even if its mediocre material, it is still a living plant.
However I will say that I have done what some might consider "foolish risks" with my trees albeit they were somewhat educated foolish risks.
The best example is my smoke tree. I purchased it and did a ton of pruning to get rid of unwanted branches and it just looked like a bush with a few very very long branches on it and not much else. It was pretty sad looking honestly. It would not back bud at all. I read that they can be cut back hard and the following spring (this is where your point comes in, I did it at the right time). It wasnt back budding on its own so I was telling the tree, sink or swim, back bud or die. Well low and behold the tree swam like an Olympic champ, started back budding all over and eventually looked pretty good considering.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Key factor...at the right time. Kudos for taking it a step further on it's journey.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Sometimes people just want to work on trees. it doesnt always come down to impatience when someone overworks a tree or pushes it a bit hard, sometimes they just want to do bonsai work. on mediocre to cheap material i dont see a problem with that really.
there is a saying that goes, 'if you find yourself doing too much, at one time on one tree, go buy more trees' work on those instead. there you go. if you dont have money to buy more trees, you might find yourself in a bit of a dilemma until you do. because it can become a very boring hobby if you dont have many trees and you've done all the required work on each one, in those situations you might find yourself doing more than necessary, im not gonna knock people for that.
i love working on my trees at anytime i want to, therefore i only usually work with species that can take a battering, thats just me
there is a saying that goes, 'if you find yourself doing too much, at one time on one tree, go buy more trees' work on those instead. there you go. if you dont have money to buy more trees, you might find yourself in a bit of a dilemma until you do. because it can become a very boring hobby if you dont have many trees and you've done all the required work on each one, in those situations you might find yourself doing more than necessary, im not gonna knock people for that.
i love working on my trees at anytime i want to, therefore i only usually work with species that can take a battering, thats just me
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
So I suppose the lesson learned there is, "know thy self."Sometimes people just want to work on trees. it doesnt always come down to impatience when someone overworks a tree or pushes it a bit hard, sometimes they just want to do bonsai work. on mediocre to cheap material i dont see a problem with that really.
there is a saying that goes, 'if you find yourself doing too much, at one time on one tree, go buy more trees' work on those instead. there you go. if you dont have money to buy more trees, you might find yourself in a bit of a dilemma until you do. because it can become a very boring hobby if you dont have many trees and you've done all the required work on each one, in those situations you might find yourself doing more than necessary, im not gonna knock people for that.
i love working on my trees at anytime i want to, therefore i only usually work with species that can take a battering, thats just me
TinyArt
Chumono
You make me feel better about my hesitation -- I keep looking at my 3 small "mail-order" serissa and thinking "what the heck do I DO with you?" But they've bloomed their little butts off right out of the box, so how could I not love them?
(Time to take pictures & make virtuals, that's what.)
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
This changes the entire context of your post. It is a huge message in a little package.
And it does not raise bristles.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
And this is why I have so many tropicals. I love repotting and restyling my plants in the heat of summer (8 in new pots yesterday) , while I am daydreaming and contemplating those plants that have to wait until next year.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
It is my biggest pet peeve. Guess I get so passionate I left out the small detail as to why it bugs me so.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
.........and we all have them.
Mine is dogmatism.
canoeguide
Chumono
Bonsai is the perfect pursuit for people who have issues "finishing" something.
It's difficult to respect or take seriously someone who does things without intention. If you can't answer why you are doing something with a reasonable answer, then what are you hoping to achieve? "Because I was bored" or "I just felt like it" are unproductive answers, void of intention.
That's not to say you can't go scoop up some nursery stock during a sale and beat it up and have it die if you have an actual intention of, say, seeing how far you can push x species, or wanting to practice wiring and ending up overdoing it, or any other operation that has a plausible intention but might result in negative consequences. This happens all the time and it's how many things are learned -- really, it's the scientific method. But scientists don't sit down and take random action because they "felt like it" or because they were "bored" and magically produce knowledge that cures disease or puts humans into space. They start with some intention and follow a process.
Even if you don't think about it so formally, bonsai practice involves considering options, taking action, observing results, and applying that knowledge (and then, of course, repeating this process a million times forever). If someone is taking action, but doing very little of the other 3 steps, then there can be no intention, learning, growth, repeatability, etc. Whether bonsai is an art or craft or hobby or something else is debatable, but what is art without intention? What is anything without intention?
I think an important word that applies to this discussion is "intention."
It's difficult to respect or take seriously someone who does things without intention. If you can't answer why you are doing something with a reasonable answer, then what are you hoping to achieve? "Because I was bored" or "I just felt like it" are unproductive answers, void of intention.
That's not to say you can't go scoop up some nursery stock during a sale and beat it up and have it die if you have an actual intention of, say, seeing how far you can push x species, or wanting to practice wiring and ending up overdoing it, or any other operation that has a plausible intention but might result in negative consequences. This happens all the time and it's how many things are learned -- really, it's the scientific method. But scientists don't sit down and take random action because they "felt like it" or because they were "bored" and magically produce knowledge that cures disease or puts humans into space. They start with some intention and follow a process.
Even if you don't think about it so formally, bonsai practice involves considering options, taking action, observing results, and applying that knowledge (and then, of course, repeating this process a million times forever). If someone is taking action, but doing very little of the other 3 steps, then there can be no intention, learning, growth, repeatability, etc. Whether bonsai is an art or craft or hobby or something else is debatable, but what is art without intention? What is anything without intention?
JackHammer
Chumono
I learned about a particular intellectual conflict. There is one aspect that a tree should be beautiful and desirable. But there is another aspect of art that I think is largely missing from the conversation - ART!
I would like to create a tree that is obscene, powerful and possibly grotesque. I want shocked faces. Anyone can make a pretty picture based on following a set of pre-determined guidelines - stencil drawings come to mind.
I am really impressed and inspired by the work of @BobbyLane. I had never seen a bonsai tree that looked frightening until seeing his hornbeams.
In general, I think the community is too conservative on this aspect. Art is allowed to be expressive.
I would like to create a tree that is obscene, powerful and possibly grotesque. I want shocked faces. Anyone can make a pretty picture based on following a set of pre-determined guidelines - stencil drawings come to mind.
I am really impressed and inspired by the work of @BobbyLane. I had never seen a bonsai tree that looked frightening until seeing his hornbeams.
In general, I think the community is too conservative on this aspect. Art is allowed to be expressive.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
At large...you have more traditionalists. I tend to like to push boundaries. I was really bummed when I got more who appreciated the bald cypress planted to the right of a pot. When traditionally it should go left. But it made it stale...I also was running on 2 hours of sleep. So mentality of if one was drunk. I get more brazen.
I had ones who didn't run in my circle . Reach out to me in messenger over this tree. Which blew my mind...by the names I had heard of...and some I hadn't. To discuss the planting...and the tree itself. 10 inch bald cypress. May still be a bit tame for you though.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I understand what you are saying and greatly respect your view, but it sounds somewhat mechanical to me. The referenced phrase above does not resonate for me. I could well be in a minority, but as someone who has been into all sorts of creative arts for several decades (60+ year), I have found much of what I do rather fathomless. Certainly what I present is normally fostered with great intention toward a goal that pleases me and a greater market, but it is also true that some of the work I have done was much more spontaneous and thus the question of why is simple self gratification or abject horror. I welcome both with open arms.
TinyArt
Chumono
I interpret that as your being open & willing to let inspiration move you -- finding out where the mystery takes you -- which is wonderful and scary. YOU, and your experience, I trust with tools and a tree, in a "let's see where this takes us" moment.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Mwa. Alternative view offiered. Anyone can cut a tree down, carve the shit out of it and put some twisted branches on it. The real challenge is to create a tree without obvious marks and scars.
