Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Dang good price. I might add if it isn't a hardship. You should get it. I love olives. I've three.
What is too much to pay for a tree?
- Thread starter Attmos
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Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
End of the day...the age old saying. A tree is worth what one is willing to pay for it. But time in by another...you will add to the price tag...
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I've got three olives as well! We can be olive buddies! I was a little concerned how they would do in our NC winters, but they come through with flying colors!
The Barber
Chumono
What is too much to spend on a tree? Oh man, that keeps evolving. I use to think I would never spend more than a couple hundred, then I found trees that I absolutely loved for thousands and didn't flinch, although my wallet did. I absolutely didn't want to live with regret. Those prices though, are for incredible yamadori material, and developed trees. You'll generally only get one shot at a tree, that is, unless you outlive the person that beats you to it. 
TimIAm
Mame
One thing that is absolutely priceless in this hobby is contentment. Considering it is supposed to be relaxing and zen like, there is a lot of pressure to have show-worthy works of art.
There is another approach to going out and buying some expensive trees. With the right set of skills you can still enjoy the hobby without buying any expensive trees, in a lot of places it's easy to get free trees. It is possible to develop seed, seedlings or free trees into something enjoyable and being personally content. There are plenty of examples on here of trees that have been developed from nothing in a reasonable time frame.
There are places in the world where people grow trees in pots for the enjoyment of developing a tree over a lifetime. Without the stress of thinking about what their neighbours trees look like.
There is another approach to going out and buying some expensive trees. With the right set of skills you can still enjoy the hobby without buying any expensive trees, in a lot of places it's easy to get free trees. It is possible to develop seed, seedlings or free trees into something enjoyable and being personally content. There are plenty of examples on here of trees that have been developed from nothing in a reasonable time frame.
There are places in the world where people grow trees in pots for the enjoyment of developing a tree over a lifetime. Without the stress of thinking about what their neighbours trees look like.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I’m not really comparing trees with anyone. Ive had this tree for 30 years. I stretched to buy it as collected stock from a professional collector in the 1990s. It was a stump with some dramatic movement. It had great potential and I’d only been doing bonsai a few years at the time. If I had spent an equivalent amount on a dozen nursery trees the result wouldn’t be the same. And wouldn’t have this (I think) outstanding unusual bonsai. Think about it. Even if you’re “doing bonsai only for yourself”, would you want to wind up with something like this 30 years down the road or another nursery maple? This tree taught me more about bonsai than a dozen landscape origin trees.
Just advocating stretching yourself instead of settling for sale bin trees and thinking small “who needs great trees” thoughts. Bonsai is indeed a journey but sooner or later it should produce rewards that are better than mediocre even if you don’t show them (which is another post- Shows actually push you personally to do better bonsai “for yourself.”)
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Absolutely agree! I'm constantly told when I share to Instagram . When mine show up as posted. They stand out as belonging to me. There is definitely pride in having trees that stand out.
TimIAm
Mame
Not buying trees doesn't mean you are left with mediocre trees or small thinking. That was the point I was trying to make.
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Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I never felt pressured into having show quality trees. I respect my material... I can't say I've ever bought a tree thinking it show quality ... or even could be. That truly isn't in my equation when I go to buy material. My #1 thing is finding character that sucks me in to investigate longer than a casual browsing. It has absolutely nothing to do with where it is in development even.
Wood
Chumono
Not too much:
Too much:
Too much:
JoeWilson
Mame
I think this is great advice for someone a decade or two in. Where I’m at, I still look at every stupid little sapling as an opportunity, something with unlimited potential. I expect that as I get older and no longer feel like I have decades to spend developing a tree, my perspective will shift.
The other part of this, for me, is the value in doing every step myself. Sure, I could buy a 10 or 20-year-old tree that someone else has developed. And maybe I will someday. But I don’t know that I would ever consider it my tree. More like someone else’s tree that I’m looking after. So I don't think it's necessarily a question of what you can afford, but if you want to take that path.
In a similar sense, I can go down the street to Rockler and buy a piece of wood and turn a bowl. But it’s not the same as cutting down a tree, milling and drying a bowl blank, and turning that into a bowl. The first one is a bowl I made from some wood; maybe it’s from better quality stock than I can find on my property. The second one is much less efficient and more difficult to produce, but it is my bowl, in every possible sense. Both are worthwhile and rewarding, of course, but in different ways.
I am stubborn about this kind of stuff. If there is a way to do more of a process myself, even if it takes much more effort, and even if I can easily afford to take a path of lesser resistance, I'm probably going to go for the hard option. In my view, the value is more in the process than the result. If you think this is assinine, you're probably right. My wife often tells me, "you know you can just buy things, right?"
Wood
Chumono
Why stop there? You should probably first make your own saw and lathe.
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe" -- Carl Sagan
The best trees in the world are multi decade endeavors. No tree in the National or the Pacific bonsai museums are all attributable to one person, by definition -- the curators are as much part of their story as the original donors. Even if your trees are entirely from rough garden stock, are you counting the effort of the nurserymen to grow that landscape tree? Bill Valavanis has built a lot of great trees from cuttings or seedlings, but even he didn't originally learn from only cuttings and seedlings. He apprenticed in Japan and learned on multi generational trees
Wulfskaar
Masterpiece
Cheap bastard here.
The most I have paid for a tree is probably $37 or so for nursery stock. I have received a $100 BC and a $129 nursery Shishigashira as gifts. Soil has been where the majority of my money has gone. "Dirt cheap" is no longer a saying I use without sarcasm.
I have a level of guilt when spending money on a selfish hobby that is completely pointless to anyone but me, so there's that. I've literally had 2 cheap pots ($26 for both) in my amazon cart for months, and I can't pull the trigger.
The consequences of my cheapness: I have zero good bonsai and zero good pots, but I'm only 5 years in. On the other hand, my horticultural experience has increased drastically from growing trees from seed, so I'm more confident with each year that I can keep an expensive tree alive.
@rockm, you pretty much have me nailed down as someone who will never have great material, but it sure is fun trying to do the best I can with what I have (your help has been greatly appreciated and valuable to me).
@Cadillactaste, you definitely have a style. All of your trees are very unique and interesting. I really appreciate seeing your collection. I, too, can sometimes tell a tree is yours before I see who posted it.
@JoeWilson, I am largely in agreement. I have greatly enjoyed the process of growing trees with the aim of making them into bonsai one day. It has contributed to my knowledge and skills, and I feel is good for my soul and mental health. Nurturing something from the start is a good feeling. I'll add that a big part of my thinking is that, since I have no kids, I want something I did to last beyond my own lifetime, besides a massive pile of waste in the local landfill. Several of my seedlings are destined to be planted in nature to live as normal trees, so that gives me a good feeling as well.
@Wood, I think it has more to do with having more control over the initial design. If I buy an established tree, I'm generally going to refine it, not design it, and I'll feel like a caretaker more than a creator.
The most I have paid for a tree is probably $37 or so for nursery stock. I have received a $100 BC and a $129 nursery Shishigashira as gifts. Soil has been where the majority of my money has gone. "Dirt cheap" is no longer a saying I use without sarcasm.
I have a level of guilt when spending money on a selfish hobby that is completely pointless to anyone but me, so there's that. I've literally had 2 cheap pots ($26 for both) in my amazon cart for months, and I can't pull the trigger.
The consequences of my cheapness: I have zero good bonsai and zero good pots, but I'm only 5 years in. On the other hand, my horticultural experience has increased drastically from growing trees from seed, so I'm more confident with each year that I can keep an expensive tree alive.
@rockm, you pretty much have me nailed down as someone who will never have great material, but it sure is fun trying to do the best I can with what I have (your help has been greatly appreciated and valuable to me).
@Cadillactaste, you definitely have a style. All of your trees are very unique and interesting. I really appreciate seeing your collection. I, too, can sometimes tell a tree is yours before I see who posted it.
@JoeWilson, I am largely in agreement. I have greatly enjoyed the process of growing trees with the aim of making them into bonsai one day. It has contributed to my knowledge and skills, and I feel is good for my soul and mental health. Nurturing something from the start is a good feeling. I'll add that a big part of my thinking is that, since I have no kids, I want something I did to last beyond my own lifetime, besides a massive pile of waste in the local landfill. Several of my seedlings are destined to be planted in nature to live as normal trees, so that gives me a good feeling as well.
@Wood, I think it has more to do with having more control over the initial design. If I buy an established tree, I'm generally going to refine it, not design it, and I'll feel like a caretaker more than a creator.
Excellent point! I am in the later years of my life, so I have more money to spend than years to develop the tree to what it should be. I try to have a few "trophy" trees (relative term) and several mid-range development trees to work on.
Wood
Chumono
Is the discussion about stretching your capabilities as a hobbyist or about maintaining a collection of finished trees?
"Stretching yourself" can be buying a nice trunk that still needs significant development. This snowbell trunk was $250, but it's not an established tree and I have a heavy hand in its originally design
It now looks like this
WNC Bonsai
Masterpiece
Regardless of the price make sure you know how to evaluate the specific species as a potential bonsai. Also make sure to do your research as to required care, etc. It’s easybto ge5 caught up,on the m9n3n5 and end up with buyer’s remorse.
JoeWilson
Mame
I mean, you’re probably asking the wrong guy. If I had space and money for metalworking tools, I would be living that life. I would be lying if I said I haven’t looked into buying a mini mill and a small forge.
Anyway, I’m not trying to say that I (or anyone else) need to do every step of the process for it to be worthwhile, but certainly, the more I do myself, the more value I see in it. I think it comes down to what your goals are. If it’s to own really nice trees, buying already developed or somewhat developed ones makes a lot of sense. If the goal is to design and develop trees, to learn and grow with those trees…
My perspective is heavily informed by my background as an artist. It would be pretty weird to buy a half-finished painting or sculpture if I wanted to do some art. Like wearing someone else’s underwear. But I get that good trees will outlive people, so of course, it’s not directly analogous, and I understand the curatorial aspect. But in the context of this thread, I think we’re much closer to “how to start developing trees” than “how to manage your endowment and care for your priceless collection of master works”.
i guess i cant even imagine 90% of those variables
imho that change fits the tree better
i wonder also what estimated age could be that trident - rarely mentioned info
I think rather worldwide popular trees rather starting material than developed, begginer friendly of course
Something that in like 5 years gives better results than "from seed to 11mm trunk"
also looking for that type of knowledge
Thats important thing
same
U bought soils, and i made mistake of buying literally garden dirt
I regret everytime when im pulling out nettles from my strawberries
5 years into lemon, few weeks on the forum and gathering knowledge
Can agree with that, but after some time spent i think i want some bit more
thats why im asking a lot (and will ask more) stupid questions, most important is "can i keep it alive"
leatherback
The Treedeemer
dang, three olives here too!
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Up here this would be at least double, if not triple that price.
Maybe in Turkey it is pricey.
If not for the olive infections doing round AND me already having three olives AND me reducing my collection, I would have reached out for your service as an intermediate.
