That's a good question. I typically don't layer after a root prune, but not sure if a slip pot would be ok. Probably, but wait for someone with more experience.
Why are my trunks spiral?
- Thread starter William Dinitzen
- Start date
William Dinitzen
Yamadori
I think im probably just going to wait until next spring. This is my first spring season growing bonsai (started last fall), so I think it would be best not to try any daring operations, and instead focus on getting down the basics of care and maintenance. But thanks for the advice, ill remember it for next year.
Hack Yeah!
Omono
Where are you located? It helps to place this info in your account details for future help.
William Dinitzen
Yamadori
Denmark, west coast, cold winds all year round, just added to my profile, thanks for letting me know
leatherback
The Treedeemer
SLip-potted without pruning I would not be too concerned. If you did proper rootwork I would not layer.
Layering starts from leaf break, but normally people wait untill a but of growth has happened. So plenty of time for you. I am putting a whole bunch of layers this weekend, and I am a bit south of you.
The blue square would be an area to layer. The first branch is the start of one bonsai. The layered top the second.
Layering starts from leaf break, but normally people wait untill a but of growth has happened. So plenty of time for you. I am putting a whole bunch of layers this weekend, and I am a bit south of you.
The blue square would be an area to layer. The first branch is the start of one bonsai. The layered top the second.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
For your maple.. I would first look into growing what you have. Maybe once the trunk gains a bit of girth you want to cut back a bit, but I think letting it grow and working the roots once or twice before drastic steps would be my route.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I would skip attempting air layer anything. With that advice, People are advising you to run before you can walk. It's not worth the effort and anxiety at this point. Even if you are successful with that operation, you will wind up with more trees you don't know what to do with.
Concentrate on the main tree.
Here's what I'd do. Simply keep them alive through the summer, fall and winter-which might not be easy with that root bound elm. Next spring, repot and root prune both. Work on getting the roots settled next spring, THEN move on to more drastic measures like heavy pruning, the following year.
This sound relatively simple, but first time trees are usually challenging. Simple steps, learning to water, learning to understand WHEN to water, seeing how trees grow--timing of new growth, how it elongates and when you can trim it are all mysteries to you at this point, much less how to air layer. Learn the basic steps, before trying to tap dance...
Concentrate on the main tree.
Here's what I'd do. Simply keep them alive through the summer, fall and winter-which might not be easy with that root bound elm. Next spring, repot and root prune both. Work on getting the roots settled next spring, THEN move on to more drastic measures like heavy pruning, the following year.
This sound relatively simple, but first time trees are usually challenging. Simple steps, learning to water, learning to understand WHEN to water, seeing how trees grow--timing of new growth, how it elongates and when you can trim it are all mysteries to you at this point, much less how to air layer. Learn the basic steps, before trying to tap dance...
William Dinitzen
Yamadori
Yep exactly what i thought, and wrote futher up. I think its best for me to stay grounded for now and learn the essential. Ive heard a few comments about the elm, but i dont quite understand why the roots are in such poor shape, is it because a few of them poke up through the soil? When i look at the roots from underneath there seems to be a lot of space to fill still.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Actually curves not too bad on eyes. 3 dimensional and not standard boring left right bend
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.Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Guess I disagree there. Air layering is a fairly innocent technique that looks dificult, but is not. Practicing this on a tree where you intent to remove the bulk anyway is a good practice round so there is experience when one really needs the technique. And if it fails, the top dies, which is no loss as it would be tossed anyway.
I take a learnng experience whenever I can.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The roots are bad for two reasons. One is visual, the other is horticultural.
Visual first--bonsai are meant to resemble trees in nature. Ideal trees, imaginary trees, not random trees. They are meant to represent "treeness" if you will. WIth that in mind, look at the roots on your elm. Do they look like the roots on most elms you see in the landscape? I'd bet not--Several roots emerge pretty far from the ground and whip around like ropes in the air. The remaining roots that are actually on the ground (where roots should be on an elm) aren't visible or emphasized. A bonsai's "nebari" --the bottom third of the trunk to the visible roots on the soil surface is the most important part of the bonsai. It establishes the overall visual image of the tree. It should set the mood for the rest of tree. In general, it should convey solid, established--a firm grip on the earth.
Horticulturally, two problems. "Air roots" tend to dominate roots below them. Eventually the portion of the trunk they connect to and above will increase in diameter faster than the roots below. Over time, that results in a swelling called "reverse taper" in which the top of the trunk is thicker than the bottom. Secondly, the root on the surface aren't really visible because of the soil condition, as well as a lack of refinement.
All this is pretty easily corrected over a year or so. Repotting is a priority for this tree next spring. Cut off all the "air roots" flush with the trunk, pull the plant out of the container. Take a water hose to the root mass, wash off all the existing soil. Sort out the best roots and arrange them more logically from the trunk as you fill with decent bonsai soil.
GGB
Masterpiece
For mass produced material I think your trees actually look pretty nice. I'd take it slow and learn to take care of them for now. You can collect free seedlings or cheap nursery stock to grow-on in the meantime. Obviously the trunk shape is a matter of opinion, and I get you wanting to work toward something more conventional, but as others mentioned, both of these have potential through air layers or cuttings for future material.
Ninecloud
Yamadori
its the perfect time to do it actually. Denmark is northern hemisphere, and your season should align with mine. Consider this - the tree makes a hormonal exchange with new buds (hormonal crosstalk), and when the tree branches is still soft during spring push, it is still pushing growth and still doing that hormonal exchange to create more growth hormones. The tree is already doing this process in spring, so it is good practice to wait until the growth hormones free up and are not doing two things at once, producing buds, and roots. Roots and buds use the same growth hormones, the only difference is if it is in ground(Produces roots) or above ground (creates buds and branching), that is why air layer kind of simulates being in ground. Considering all this, waiting for branches to harden and tapering off on spring push is some of the best time right before it gets real hot. The point is that a vigorous tree might have better chances but your success chance and potential increases a lot but not doing it early spring. This is all information from Peter Warren, Andrew Robson and some others on how to increase success rate of air layers, and has helped me a lot. Just keep this in your back pocket for when you're ready . My first year in bonsai would have had a lot of failed attempts, practice on natives if you want to build that confidence.
src.
Peter Warren
Air Layering and follow up on defoliated trees - Live Stream with Peter Warren
Looking at air layering trees and also work needed to be done on trees that were defoliated earlier in the year.If this was of use to you then please conside...
www.youtube.com
Andrew Robson
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Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
How much did you disturb the roots? If not at all, you can do an air layer.
If you teased out some soil and stuff like that, I think you still can. But I'm no maple expert, I just slip potted mine in winter and did an air layer on monday. If it dies, it dies.
