Improvement of an old apple tree with very straight trunks

[GregoryGlitzer]

Hello everyone!
I absolutely need a second opinion about my apple tree, so I’ve joined the forum. I hope this thread is in the right section.
I have a fairly old apple tree that has been cared for in a pot for about 10 years.
What bothers me about this tree are the visible, very straight lines of the two trunks.

Do you have any ideas on what could be done with the tree?
I know the trunks are straight, but maybe you have an idea on how repositioning or a more radical measure could improve the tree.

I am looking forward to your ideas!
Thanks and best regards, Gregor

 

[rockm]

To maximize this trees potential you have to get past the existing branching and trunks. For instance ALL of the branches are tooo long and leggy. Timid pruning can a responsible for that. It’s common. I do it too. This tree should be a third the height it is now (or less) to make it a good bonsai. The trunks are too thin to boat h the current height

That means a trunk chop. A BIG trunk chop to one third the height now. Then using the resulting new shoots to grow on a completely new crown and branch network. Apples are extremely tough and can take that kind of reduction-in fact apple kind of require heavy pruning to keep them healthy. In orchard allles are heavily pruned to induce fruiting and get rid of unnecessary growth. You shouldnt worry about the effects of a heavy chop with the species.

It’s drastic and something to think about. If you’re thinking about wiring or drastic bends in the existing trunks forget it. Apple wood is brittle and will break easily with that kind of handling.

 

[Michael P]

Does the tolerance for heavy pruning apply to crab apples also?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Does the tolerance for heavy pruning apply to crab apples also?

Yes. They're essentially less cultivated apples.
But their healing is slower and they might require some better protection on the wounds.

 

[rockm]

Does the tolerance for heavy pruning apply to crab apples also?

Yes it does. Crabapple respond extremely well to hard pruning. This one (Toringo variety) is in the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum in DC. It was created from a full grown tree and chopped back repeatedly. It has been in training since 1905. The first chop was done where. the first bend up from the trunk is. It’s about two and a half to three feet tall and bends many times in that space. Each “bend” is a trunk reduction No wife was involved in developing the trunk

 

[Goathead]

Yes it does. Crabapple respond extremely well to hard pruning. This one (Toringo variety) is in the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum in DC. It was created from a full grown tree and chopped back repeatedly. It has been in training since 1905. The first chop was done where. the first bend up from the trunk is. It’s about two and a half to three feet tall and bends many times in that space. Each “bend” is a trunk reduction No wife was involved in developing the trunk

. I bet at least 1 wife in the last 100 yrs had to put up with somebody to create this tree!

 

[Shibui]

This tree currently has a few issues, some of which have already been pointed out.
I agree with assessment from @rockm Especially about the over long branches. Ideally a shorter tree would probably look better but maybe too much to chop to stumps for someone new?
Maybe there are some less radical possibilities? May not produce museum quality bonsai but could be more acceptable in the short term.

Twin trunk rarely look best viewed directly in front of both trunks. Of the photos I think the first - 4898 looks best as it brings the apex of the larger trunk forward but reduces overall width.
I'm also looking at the apex. Tops of both trunks grow inward, toward each other- which is not natural. Normally a shorter trunk grows out and away from the shade of the taller trunk. Hard to pick existing branches to reduce the smaller trunk from these 2D photos. Ideally, shorter than the main trunk and growing out and away from it.
Check this option - cut at red and use blue circled branch as a new leader? All branches will need to be shortened and probably a few totally removed from the top of the main trunk. Maybe the new leader in blue can be wired and moved into a better location? Just take note of the warning about brittle wood above if you decide to try bending.
With those changes to the apical branches you might be able to pull the 2 trunks a little closer together. It appears that's been tried with the turnbuckle but if that's to stay the wires around the trunks definitely need padding or will make big grooves in the trunks.

Also remember we can't see 3D movement in photos so there may be other better leaders on that smaller trunk.
Always check that internet suggestions will work on the real tree before following suggestions.

 

[BobbyLane]

I was thinking that if you could get any of the surplus branches to root, by way of airlayering or striking cuttings. These could be used to make a clump out of the material.

 

[GregoryGlitzer]

Hi Shibui & Rockm!
Thank you very much for your advice ( and by the way, thethe posted tree looks really great)!
I had already suspected that it would come down to a more radical action.
The only question now is how extreme it will be. From your perspective, these would be the two options, right (blue & red)?
The timing should be quite good for this in Germany at the moment.
Do you think the remaining trunk will look less straight if the new leader brings more movement into it?
Thanks again & best regards

 

[Tieball]

I was thinking through some selective branch removals, planting angle change and a trunk chop on that left side. Some thicker branches up high were removed to bring the overall image down and flatten the rounded crown some. This shows roughly what my mind visualized.

 

[Tieball]

What I hope would happen is that with the trunk chop and branch pruning would be secondary branches developing on the left side branch. I’d target those branches to lean to and over the main trunk to break up the straightness. When leaves develop the straightness would be concealed. The left side would be pruned to develop the look of a secondary tree with foliage.

 

[Kanorin]

@GregoryGlitzer Have you ever done an airlayer before? That right trunk could make for a very interesting tree if airlayered.

 

[GregoryGlitzer]

Hi!
I have done some airlayerings, but only wih thinner maples.
I might just give it a try, not much to loose as i would chop it anyways.
Thanks for this idea!


Tieball thank you for your idea. it already looks much better on your graphic.
But i would be still a little bit wooried about the strain and long main trunk..

 

[Shibui]

From your perspective, these would be the two options, right (blue & red)?

The red chop option could be OK but would probably require the remaining branch on the small trunk to also be chopped or wired upwards so it does not go quite so far away from the main trunk.
Blue option: You've marked both chops at the same height. It's important for balance that the smaller trunk be both thinner and shorter. I would either take the chop for the tall trunk up a little or cut the small trunk a bit lower. If the small one is marked at that spot because of the side branch definitely go lower. That branch grows toward the main trunk and is way too long anyway. It will probably be better to start both trunks on equal footing - no existing branches. Otherwise the smaller one with an existing branch might just grow more and quicker to equal or overtake the thicker one.

 

[GregoryGlitzer]

Thank you for all your answers!
Ich will try to air layer in march, and in the next winter i will do the trunk chop like you adviced me.
Thank you all for your support.
I will give you an update about the air layers in half a year

 

[Tieball]

Before chopping you might try a season of significant branch pruning. Apple trees, around me in the orchards anyway, are regularly pruned back hard before the bud formations in spring. The orchard growers prune near the end of winter. The Apple trees bud back all over the tree, including old trunk wood. It’s how the orchards renew a tree. Just something to consider.

With a trunk chop also, you should get plenty of back-budding all over.