The Vance Wood Memorial Mugo 4yr. Contest

[Mad Tabby]

So should I pot up each year like I do with house plants? Go from the one gallon to the 3 gallon to the 5 gallon to the nice pot I bought Mr Mugo (pronounced close to Magoo) or should I toss him in the big pot like I was popping him into the ground?

 

[TrevorLarsen]

So should I pot up each year like I do with house plants? Go from the one gallon to the 3 gallon to the 5 gallon to the nice pot I bought Mr Mugo (pronounced close to Magoo) or should I toss him in the big pot like I was popping him into the ground?

In the guide lays out Vance’s techniques (and that the contest is following) has all the information about when and how to repot.

 

[Mad Tabby]

In the guide lays out Vance’s techniques (and that the contest is following) has all the information about when and how to repot.

Well I’m reading & rereading it and maybe I’m just not getting it, but some of it seems contradictory. Don’t touch the roots, cut half the roots off. Repot every year but don’t disturb the roots.

Cut back this years growth every year, but don’t decandle.

“

• Planting it in a larger pot or pond basket will allow the trunk to thicken. Your goal is to get the trunk to thicken instead of the branches, which is the tendency for young mugos. I have found that planting in a basket will thicken the trunk better than ground planting.”

Maybe I’m wrong but I thought pond baskets were for the ground. It’s not like roots can’t escape them. Just makes it easier to lift whatever plant you have in it.

And I thought ground planting is what thickened trunks.

Don’t prune, limit your pruning to 60%.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but I’m new to bonsai and maybe it’s because I’m a linear thinker, I’m rather confused.

I’m just asking if I pot up each year as I said going from the 1 gallon to 3 gallon to 5 to the big one (15”) or do I put the mugo into a 1 gallon pond basket then just refresh the surrounding soil each year?

I honestly do not get the instructions.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

You don’t want to repot a pine more than once every three years. Cut back this years growth means once the candles have become branches in mid to late July then you cut them off. Pond baskets are best for air pruning so above ground is where they work best.

The guide is confusing because it has several sections. Just find the part that describes what to do with nursery material for the first year of bonsai work. If you are still confused I can be more specific.

 

[19Mateo83]

I plan on following Vance’s guide for my contest tree but the timing is throwing me for a loop, Vance lived in Michigan and I’m in NC, I’m curious how much sooner other southern folk are on their timelines opposed to Vance’s guidelines. I’m thinking my little pine must be at least a month ahead of Vance’s Michigan time line. Its candles are already extended fully and opened up all the way.

 

[RJG2]

I was just re-reading Vance's compiled guide to prepare to get mine out of the nursery container.

Maybe I missed it somehow, but did he ever write about how he transitioned out of nursery soil? Half bare root? Core first, outside later?

I know in the guide the initial step is essentially:

1. Cut half the bottom off
2. Loosen/trim circling
3. Plant in shallower/wider container with bonsai soil around the edge

I didn't see anything about next steps (even if it's years down the road).

 

[cishepard]

I was just re-reading Vance's compiled guide to prepare to get mine out of the nursery container.

Maybe I missed it somehow, but did he ever write about how he transitioned out of nursery soil? Half bare root? Core first, outside later?

I know in the guide the initial step is essentially:

1. Cut half the bottom off
2. Loosen/trim circling
3. Plant in shallower/wider container with bonsai soil around the edge

I didn't see anything about next steps (even if it's years down the road).

In the guide he says for the first year do this out of the nursery can:

“Using a root hook or chopstick, loosen the circling roots. Remove only the thickest ones, no more than 25% of the circling roots.”

then he says don’t touch the roots for 3 years, then spend 3-4 repotting cycles doing the same (loosening and pruning evenly all around) to finally remove all of the original soil and reduce the rootball as specified here:

• Bare rooting a Mugo should never be done. You can take three or four repotting cycles to replace all the old soil. I believe it is important to leave at least 50% of the root system intact and functioning without being disturbed. That 50% must be all around the soil ball. I have found that mugos, like many mountain pines, tend to be of a sector architecture, roots to branches top to bottom. If you kill a root you will kill the portion of the top it is attached to and the same vice versa. If you kill a major branch you will kill the root that it is attached to. It for this reason you cannot do what seems to be practice with some other pines and that is in removing the 50% of the growth from one side. The odds of destroying a critical sectored growth line to a critical part of the tree is too great. This is one of the reason some really good bonsai growers, successful with other pines, seem to kill mugos.

Maybe the contest should have been 7-8 yrs long! If following to the letter, the trees should not be in bonsai pots until at least this long.

 

[RJG2]

In the guide he says for the first year do this out of the nursery can:

“Using a root hook or chopstick, loosen the circling roots. Remove only the thickest ones, no more than 25% of the circling roots.”

then he says don’t touch the roots for 3 years, then spend 3-4 repotting cycles doing the same (loosening and pruning evenly all around) to finally remove all of the original soil and reduce the rootball as specified here:

• Bare rooting a Mugo should never be done. You can take three or four repotting cycles to replace all the old soil. I believe it is important to leave at least 50% of the root system intact and functioning without being disturbed. That 50% must be all around the soil ball. I have found that mugos, like many mountain pines, tend to be of a sector architecture, roots to branches top to bottom. If you kill a root you will kill the portion of the top it is attached to and the same vice versa. If you kill a major branch you will kill the root that it is attached to. It for this reason you cannot do what seems to be practice with some other pines and that is in removing the 50% of the growth from one side. The odds of destroying a critical sectored growth line to a critical part of the tree is too great. This is one of the reason some really good bonsai growers, successful with other pines, seem to kill mugos.

Maybe the contest should have been 7-8 yrs long! If following to the letter, the trees should not be in bonsai pots until at least this long.

Right, but if you're doing it loosely all around every time, you'll never get the core nursery soil out.

I'm not saying bare root the whole thing, but at some point you'll need to bare root a portion.

I think I might try doing the core at the second repot.

 

[RODERLO]

In the guide he says for the first year do this out of the nursery can:

“Using a root hook or chopstick, loosen the circling roots. Remove only the thickest ones, no more than 25% of the circling roots.”

then he says don’t touch the roots for 3 years, then spend 3-4 repotting cycles doing the same (loosening and pruning evenly all around) to finally remove all of the original soil and reduce the rootball as specified here:

• Bare rooting a Mugo should never be done. You can take three or four repotting cycles to replace all the old soil. I believe it is important to leave at least 50% of the root system intact and functioning without being disturbed. That 50% must be all around the soil ball. I have found that mugos, like many mountain pines, tend to be of a sector architecture, roots to branches top to bottom. If you kill a root you will kill the portion of the top it is attached to and the same vice versa. If you kill a major branch you will kill the root that it is attached to. It for this reason you cannot do what seems to be practice with some other pines and that is in removing the 50% of the growth from one side. The odds of destroying a critical sectored growth line to a critical part of the tree is too great. This is one of the reason some really good bonsai growers, successful with other pines, seem to kill mugos.

Maybe the contest should have been 7-8 yrs long! If following to the letter, the trees should not be in bonsai pots until at least this long.

I agree, 4 years is enough if you have a mugo that’s already had it’s first repotting cycle done 3 years ago, but seems to be too short for nursery stock.

 

[Paradox]

Not just with the roots. Four years is really too short for getting branch development also on a pine. Particularly with the repotting every 3 years at a minimum.

 

[Paradox]

Right, but if you're doing it loosely all around every time, you'll never get the core nursery soil out.

I'm not saying bare root the whole thing, but at some point you'll need to bare root a portion.

I think I might try doing the core at the second repot.

Could do around the outside as he says the first time then maybe do the core in quarters the next 4 repots. He did say it would take several repots

 

[KateM]

So, maybe we can regroup after 4 years? See how many trees are left in the running and extend this contest for anouther 4 years?

 

[stubmle]

I was wondering the same thing myself... when I plotted out my plan of action it seemed like the soonest I could repot again safely (if following Vance's method to the letter) would be Summer 2028, and the contest ends in Spring of that year.

On the other hand... I suspect a lot of people might not have the time/patience/etc. to finish a 12-year contest!

I guess I should ask "what is the goal here?" Are we trying to produce a "finished" tree or just to see who gets farthest from raw stock before time runs out?

 

[Paradox]

I was wondering the same thing myself... when I plotted out my plan of action it seemed like the soonest I could repot again safely (if following Vance's method to the letter) would be Summer 2028, and the contest ends in Spring of that year.

On the other hand... I suspect a lot of people might not have the time/patience/etc. to finish a 12-year contest!

I guess I should ask "what is the goal here?" Are we trying to produce a "finished" tree or just to see who gets farthest from raw stock before time runs out?

I think the original intention was to honor the memory of Vance, whose passion was mugo pine by doing a collective effort to all work on at least one. 4 years isn't really going to get anyone far from a nursery stock tree so a finished tree will probably be out of the question.

I wouldn’t mind seeing how far we get in 4 years and who is still in it and interested in extending the project. Might also give someone incentive to start a new one if they have a mishap and lose their tree.

 

[cishepard]

I think we will keep the contest at 4 yrs. with the goal of just judging the trees on how far they have advanced in their bonsai journey, and then extend the contest another 4 years with the same criteria. I think that would be fun and not feel as daunting as a single longer contest.
I’ll edit the rules to mention this.

 

[Bu-Jetjet]

… Hello everyone

I’m a bit late seeing this contest, and I was wondering if I can still join as long as I purchase a nursery stock (September 2024)?

 

[The Barber]

… Hello everyone

I’m a bit late seeing this contest, and I was wondering if I can still join as long as I purchase a nursery stock (September 2024)?

Most contests have an end date, but most don't have a required start date, doubt anyone would mind.

 

[JimmySmart]

They’re hard to find in Australia, but I’ll join if I come across one soonish

Maybe reach out to @Shibui. I just ordered one last week.