Man, I know better, but.....
The Ultimate “Put Up or Shut Up” Challenge
Over the scant five years I have been involved in bonsai, I have posted many of my efforts as well as contributed to the community in many ways, including writing many articles for the major bonsai magazines, creating on-line magazines, and creating contests that outshine any that came before.
All of which is pretty impressive Will. While most of your articles are opinion pieces (Talent, Defining bonsai, Ownership in bonsai, and myth) there are a few that are good articles. Your websites also have a place in bonsai, they are unique and pretty.
Yet, a few individuals ignore all this and periodically post innuendos, suggestions, and other such backhanded comments suggesting that, since I do all these other things, I can not or do not actually ”do bonsai.”
Here is where you are mistaken a bit. Nobody ignores that you write these things. It is the way in which you do it. Because a university said foliar feeding doesn't work doesn't make it gospel. There are thousands of farmers (KK) who have been using it and seeing the results for many many decades. Experience is worth something. Yet you don't give anyone a single shred of respect for the decades of proven results. "Nope, UofW said it doesn't work so that's it." Life isn't always black and white. I for one know it works, have covered root balls and foliar fed in order to monitor water to the roots and trees dig it. There is more to it, but in a nutshell, for junipers and pines it works for me.
With the way you hold your chest up about your resume and articles everyone expects that you should be leaps and bounds ahead with your bonsai. See anyone can write an article on literati, or try to compare bonsai to sculpture (which is funny) but that same person ought to be able to post some very good trees to be credible. And when they can't do that that is when the parrot word gets thrown around.....You think all that Walter has done in articles written, forums, fighting etc.. about naturalistic bonsai would be taken seriously if he didn't have trees to back it up? He threw down some stunning examples of naturalistic bonsai, people listened because his trees spoke. Same thing here.... put up.
Never mind the fact that I always have posted bonsai on many forums, going as far back as posting a ficus to Walter Pall’s “Ask the Master” section at BT, when it existed, to a recent series of posts at Bsite asking the members if their vision matched my vision for a few of my own bonsai.
Again with your resume Will, your trees should be WAY further along or you should start with much better material. This is why you always get the put up or shut up. You only see black and white, you only see what you want to see and you talk down to anyone who doesn't buy into it.
It was not quite a year ago that I once again answered the same baseless remarks by posting a progression of a semi-cascade ficus and a mugo pine right here on this forum. Never the less, these comments still surface whenever a few people can not debate a subject and attempt to “win” by implying that since I do not actually do bonsai, the information I put forth is not correct. This is commonly called “Attacking the person” and actually proves nothing...I don’t have to be a drunk to tell someone that drinking and driving is dangerous.
Before I get to the challenge, let’s look at some of the most recent comments of this nature to see where they come from and to prove I am not just knocking over straw men here.
People can debate a subject just fine. It is how you handle it that makes everyone nuts and then they tell you to just put up or shut, both of which you refuse to do. You don't take into account or respect the experience of anyone, if you read it from somewhere then that is it, nothing else is right.
Al started this thread
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1605 last week to do basically what you are trying to do here, minus the fundraiser. Why didn't you add to this thread? Many jumped on it and posted trees. That is all that needs to be done. Not some big overblown contest to make you look good.
Now the challenge......
I challenge the people quoted above, as well as any others who wish to jump in, to compete head to head with me designing a bonsai. This is your chance to prove that I can’t actually do bonsai and to finally shut me up. However, it is also my chance to shut you up forever.
Wrong..... Your trees you have posted before actually speak for themselves, good or bad, that is up to who ever sees them. You will never shut up Will, everyone knows this
Until you start posting trees that are better than the people you named they will never shut up and if you won this silly contest they still would have better trees.
Here are the conditions and rules.
All participants will purchase a piece of bonsai material blindly. Meaning that we will respectfully ask Brent, who has material and is well known for his impartiality, fairness, and level-headiness, to select material for us. This material will all be the same species, be of the same overall quality, and offer the same options. The participants will not know what species, size, or quality of material they are receiving until it arrives at their doorstep. The only advantage they will have is their own ability and talent.
Participants will pay for the material they will be sent.
Once we receive the material, we will post four pictures, one of each side, right here at Bnut.
Here is where it gets funny..... in order to get material that will really show ones skills you will need to spend a few hundred bucks. I have seen what Brent gets for trees, and you need to start in the $200+ (probably higher) range in order to get material that will look nearly complete at the end of the contest. Sorry dude, but I am not going to do that. I have over a 100 very high quality trees in my yard that have yet to ever be worked on.....that is where I will devote my time. In order to really show ones skills you have to start with killer material...something that will take 5 yrs or 10 yrs to look like a bonsai won't cut it. You have to spend a chunk of change.
We will have 1 month to style the material, we will not be re-potting, and at that time, we will post four pictures, one of each side, right here at Bnut again.
All work must be the participants own, no help, advice, suggestions, or direction can be given by anyone, this is about what we can do ourselfs.
1 month???? Why so long, do you plan to make love to it?? It should be a 3 day thing, 5 max. Who needs a month to work on a tree. You should be able to see the tree in an hour and have it done in one setting, even if it takes 10 hrs. Same gripe I have about the contests on forums, the time frame is lame. I will bet you that everyone who knows what they are doing hammers the tree out in one setting, I know I did with the KoB. How could you not? A month, wow..... Why not repot too???? It can be done and should be an option left up to the artist.
At that time all entries will be auctioned off here at Bnut, every entry will be in this auction because.....the bonsai receiving the highest winning bid, which is paid, will be determined the winner. Any winning tree that is not paid for will be disqualified.
Lastly, all proceeds will go to the
William Valavanis benefit to help him rebuild.
This eliminates having to find impartial judges and the foolish popularity vote.
I am sure Bill has home owners insurance and Business insurance that will do the rebuilding for him. I mean no personal disrespect to the man, I have the utmost respect for him. He could probably benfit from friends helping him do the heavy lifting, cleaning the property and doing tasks to free him up to deal with everything. This auction isn't going to do much for him. It does way more for you than him.
Your auction thing can only be fair if it is anonymous. Any other way and it is biased. If I did this and someone really wanted my tree that can bid it up even if it isn't the best tree....and with your fan base I see this actually hurting you. What needs to happen is pcitures get sent to Brent, Brent posts them on the forum and after bidding the artist gets revealed. Anything other than this is pointless.
I have a millionaire buddy, think I could get him to drop some coin so I won. Sure I could. This just proves this concept is flawed.
I can hear them already, so don’t waste your time giving us excuses that won’t cut it. Here’s your chance to prove your own words or to run, lest you be exposed. Don’t waste our time telling us about the labor pains, show us the baby!
This should be the last “put up or shut up” thread we will ever see from these people because it is all here, all laid out, all ready for them to, well....put up or shut up.
We have all put up in the past....that hasn't been the issue here.
So do you have the courage to put you money where your mouth is, to put your words up to the test? I’m talking to you, Chris Johnston, Al Keppler, Irene_b, King Kong, TheSteve, JasonG, cquinn, mojosan, buddamonk, others? Do you have what you claim I need?
Will
I have nothing to prove to you, infact you have everything to prove to everyone here. You are the one always getting called out, put up or shut up. Al, Buddmonk, Myself, JohnG, KK, etc have always posted trees, very good tree at that. We have no reason to put up or shut up. Nobody ever calls any of us out because we don't claim to be an authority on all things bonsai, instead we post trees and they speak. Some may claim certain things but when they/we do it is backed up with a killer tree to prove it.
So, what you have done here is set everyone but yourself up to fail. If any of us decline to accept then we are the jerks who refused to help out Bill.....and by running this and calling us out on several forums you assure that we are the bad guys and you are the hero trying to raise money for a brother during a tough time. You can add it to your resume, and I promise you in a month or 2 years from now I will see this added to it on one of the forums. Watch. This contest is going to be doomed from the start.
There is a better way to run it, I know John layed some ideas out there...as have I.
I will be shocked if any of the people you named actually come out to play with you Will. And when they don't it has nothing to do with not wanting to help out Bill. Almost everyone you named has already put up, several times. It is you that needs to put up, not us. For me, I will start posting more trees on the forums with much more detail on my blog. Who knows, I might even save a tree for the kno'b contest....
As the title of my post says..... Man, I know better, but.....nothing good can come from this
Jason
