The 2024 Yamadori/Collecting Thread

[rusticana]

I think the best practice is to keep root pruning them. Cut a circle around them with a sharp shovel but leave in place till ready to remove? Sounds a little late for you to start this. At nurseries they do this with a roto tiller in both directions.

What am I thinking you must be the master at digging things up.

 

[acj990]

Just remember, there's a reason they're called the ROCKY Mountains. You're competing with geology; no soil, just rocks with sand in between. Roots will run dozens of feet in all directions, including down. A pry bar is a good idea.
Be very judicious about what you chose to dig. You might find yourself half an hour in, and realize there's no possible way you're going to get a decent football out from between the rocks; fill it in and leave it alone. Don't kill a beautiful and unique tree just because you've already spent the time. One out of 1000 good trees are safely extractable.

I recommend concentrating your hunt on the northern or eastern slopes, where the sun is least intense. Water evaporates slower there, so you're likely to have roots slightly shallower.
When you find a nice one, give it a jiggle first thing to see how firmly it's rooted. If it gives a little, then explore the base of the trunk to get an idea of where the roots go, then remind yourself they go a completely different direction once you get below the surface.
Pack a roll of packing plastic to wrap up the rootball as soon as it comes out. Have containers, soil water and wire ready in your vehicle for immediate transplanting.
It's been warm and dry throughout most of Colorado recently, so not ideal conditions for collecting. Ensure you're set for proper after care during the trip home. You will have better luck with deciduous this time of year, though moisture loving conifers (spruce and fir) will be possible; they tend to root faster.

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the information and local knowledge in your reply. Definitely took a screenshot for future use. This is exactly why I’ve come to this forum.

 

[BonsaiManic]

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the information and local knowledge in your reply. Definitely took a screenshot for future use. This is exactly why I’ve come to this forum.

@ShadyStump, @Colorado, and @Hartinez are probably the three best sources to search within the walls of this forum to answer your specific questions in regards to dry mountain, high elevation conifer collection. At least of the people I've been in contact with. Their threads and advice won't steer you wrong.

 

[RobertB]

Juniper from May 22’

nice

 

[Hartinez]

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the information and local knowledge in your reply. Definitely took a screenshot for future use. This is exactly why I’ve come to this forum.

I hate to say it @ShadyStump but there are some things you said that I dont agree with.


1 - the trees on the northern and eastern slopes tend to be less gnarly and less character filled in my experience. @acj990 , if your new to collecting this may be the better option for you though. My best trees from the mountains and high desert have almost all come from the western and southern slopes where the winds and sun are the most harsh. The internodes are shorter, needles smaller, etc. etc. May be best to leave those till your more experienced.

2 - Just because it’s rocky, doesnt mean it’s all rock. While yes often times you will compete with rocks, you will also probably find different soil/dirt/clay types. Never collect juniper and or pine in mostly sand. The sand falls away too easily and the roots immediately exposed. I tend to search out trees growing in either packed and broken down pine duff, or a clay and rock combo soil. These soil types stay intact allowing for any small and fine feeder roots to stay intact at collection.

3 - You’ll almost always encounter a tap root. The ability to keep the native soil intact for post tap root severing in my experience is crucial. Dont let a tap root scare you, just be careful with everything else. If it looks like it’s locked into rocks, it probably is. Pry bar mostly useless at that point. Unless its piles of larger rocks and not one big rock formation.

4 - Some wiggle in the trunk and base where it meets the soil is good. Too much movement when you move the tree is not good. Locked in solid may not be the best choice.

5 - Dont repot at your vehicle. Wrap the soil ball tight with packing wrap and leave it wrapped until you can get to a good place to plant it properly. Use pure sifted pumice and build yourself a box if possible. Nursery containers, terra cotta pots, Anderson flats also work. You’ve just got to make sure you lock the tree into the pot really well. Using a box allows me to use wood kickers which i screw into the trunk and into the box. Gives them the best chance to throw roots even if you have to move or transport them.

Im collecting in the mountains of northern NM which aren’t entirely dissimilar to the areas you’re looking. This is not a fool proof endeavor. Make sure you feel real confident before digging a phenomenal tree.

Happy to answer more questions if you have em.

Thread 'Digging Piñon Pine'

Sep 10, 2024

The piñon pine. Yes I’m referring to New Mexico based pine not the Colorado pinyon, which I’m convinced the only difference is the lack of the ñ in the spelling and pronunciation. But that’s more shit talk that biological knowledge.

I’ve long thought these could be phenomenal specimen for bonsai. Not only for their needle size, rugged craggy bark, twisty forms, but also the cultural and historical importance they hold for northern New Mexican peoples and the possibilities available in the presentation of the trees in shows and exhibits.

I’m not the only one who has thought this, but...

• Hartinez
• piñon piñon pine piñon pine bonsai
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Pines

• 
• 

 

[BrianBay9]

I hate to say it @ShadyStump but there are some things you said that I dont agree with.


1 - the trees on the northern and eastern slopes tend to be less gnarly and less character filled in my experience. @acj990 , if your new to collecting this may be the better option for you though. My best trees from the mountains and high desert have almost all come from the western and southern slopes where the winds and sun are the most harsh. The internodes are shorter, needles smaller, etc. etc. May be best to leave those till your more experienced.

2 - Just because it’s rocky, doesnt mean it’s all rock. While yes often times you will compete with rocks, you will also probably find different soil/dirt/clay types. Never collect juniper and or pine in mostly sand. The sand falls away too easily and the roots immediately exposed. I tend to search out trees growing in either packed and broken down pine duff, or a clay and rock combo soil. These soil types stay intact allowing for any small and fine feeder roots to stay intact at collection.

3 - You’ll almost always encounter a tap root. The ability to keep the native soil intact for post tap root severing in my experience is crucial. Dont let a tap root scare you, just be careful with everything else. If it looks like it’s locked into rocks, it probably is. Pry bar mostly useless at that point. Unless its piles of larger rocks and not one big rock formation.

4 - Some wiggle in the trunk and base where it meets the soil is good. Too much movement when you move the tree is not good. Locked in solid may not be the best choice.

5 - Dont repot at your vehicle. Wrap the soil ball tight with packing wrap and leave it wrapped until you can get to a good place to plant it properly. Use pure sifted pumice and build yourself a box if possible. Nursery containers, terra cotta pots, Anderson flats also work. You’ve just got to make sure you lock the tree into the pot really well. Using a box allows me to use wood kickers which i screw into the trunk and into the box. Gives them the best chance to throw roots even if you have to move or transport them.

Im collecting in the mountains of northern NM which aren’t entirely dissimilar to the areas you’re looking. This is not a fool proof endeavor. Make sure you feel real confident before digging a phenomenal tree.

Happy to answer more questions if you have em.

Thread 'Digging Piñon Pine'

Sep 10, 2024

The piñon pine. Yes I’m referring to New Mexico based pine not the Colorado pinyon, which I’m convinced the only difference is the lack of the ñ in the spelling and pronunciation. But that’s more shit talk that biological knowledge.

I’ve long thought these could be phenomenal specimen for bonsai. Not only for their needle size, rugged craggy bark, twisty forms, but also the cultural and historical importance they hold for northern New Mexican peoples and the possibilities available in the presentation of the trees in shows and exhibits.

I’m not the only one who has thought this, but...

• Hartinez
• piñon piñon pine piñon pine bonsai
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Pines

• 
• 

I hate to say it Hartinez but there are some things you said I don't agree with. The acj990 specifically asked about collecting in Larimer County, CO. That's prob granite ridges at about 7000 ft. Best trees to collect will be contained in rock pockets in the granite. If you find the right tree, you can collect with almost all of the feeder roots in 15 min. Rock the trees and look for the pine duff in the rock pocket to all move. Pry it out and cut a couple of support roots heading into cracks in the rock, and the tree will hardly notice that you put it into a pot. I do agree with you on point 5.

 

[Hartinez]

I hate to say it Hartinez but there are some things you said I don't agree with. The acj990 specifically asked about collecting in Larimer County, CO. That's prob granite ridges at about 7000 ft. Best trees to collect will be contained in rock pockets in the granite. If you find the right tree, you can collect with almost all of the feeder roots in 15 min. Rock the trees and look for the pine duff in the rock pocket to all move. Pry it out and cut a couple of support roots heading into cracks in the rock, and the tree will hardly notice that you put it into a pot. I do agree with you on point 5.

Sounds like you’ve had great success in high mountain collecting. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Hartinez]

@acj990 I haven’t collected that far north. I was specifically responding to a different comment so my apologies if my info mixes you up. @ShadyStump no offense, my comments were probably misplaced on your advice for the location. Sounds like @BrianBay9 has it figured out though. He can get you dialed in.

 

[BrianBay9]

Sounds like you’ve had great success in high mountain collecting. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Maybe 3 or 4 dozen trees, over a few years, all in Larimer County. Mostly ponderosa and lodgepole. I think my survival rate was between 80 and 90%. With fall collecting I was slightly less successful than spring collecting, but you don't have to wait for the snowmelt to have clear roads. I have no experience in the high desert.

 

[Hartinez]

Maybe 3 or 4 dozen trees, over a few years, all in Larimer County. Mostly ponderosa and lodgepole. I think my survival rate was between 80 and 90%. With fall collecting I was slightly less successful than spring collecting, but you don't have to wait for the snowmelt to have clear roads. I have no experience in the high desert.

Do south and west facing sloped trees not have the most character up north? Seems like it would be a more universal situation but maybe not.

 

[acj990]

@acj990 I haven’t collected that far north. I was specifically responding to a different comment so my apologies if my info mixes you up. @ShadyStump no offense, my comments were probably misplaced on your advice for the location. Sounds like @BrianBay9 has it figured out though. He can get you dialed in.

You all have been great with the information. I can’t thank you enough for sharing your experiences and knowledge. I learn more every time I log into this thing.

 

[acj990]

Maybe 3 or 4 dozen trees, over a few years, all in Larimer County. Mostly ponderosa and lodgepole. I think my survival rate was between 80 and 90%. With fall collecting I was slightly less successful than spring collecting, but you don't have to wait for the snowmelt to have clear roads. I have no experience in the high desert.

If you have any general areas you could point me in the direction of, great! If not, no worries at all. I think the hunt will be worth it or at least the views will be.

 

[BrianBay9]

If you have any general areas you could point me in the direction of, great! If not, no worries at all. I think the hunt will be worth it or at least the views will be.

When I was collecting in Roosevelt Natl Forest they only gave permits for particular places. It may be different now, but they chose the general area. I probably spent more time on private land......ask first!

 

[ShadyStump]

@acj990, @Hartinez is likely this site's number one expert on collecting in the arid regions of the southern Rockies, especially piñon pines, but looks like @BrianBay9 has the local experience you're really going for. @Colorado has a solid track record for many of the region's conifers.

Me, I learned everything I know by screwing it up.
I'm the expert on how to get in over your head, back out safely, then repeat again elsewhere. If you noticed, my whole post was preparing you for what can go wrong. LoL

 

[Gabler]

You all have been great with the information. I can’t thank you enough for sharing your experiences and knowledge. I learn more every time I log into this thing.

Just think how smart you could be if you get into the habit of logging in every day!

 

[Colorado]

If you have any general areas you could point me in the direction of, great! If not, no worries at all. I think the hunt will be worth it or at least the views will be.

I’d try to scout some areas beforehand on Google maps satellite view. You can see where there are rocky ridges, etc. although of course this is just to give you a general idea of spots to try.

Be prepared to walk a long, loooong way before finding a “good” tree

Have fun!

 

[BrianBay9]

When I was collecting in Roosevelt Natl Forest they only gave permits for particular places. It may be different now, but they chose the general area. I probably spent more time on private land......ask first!

Looking at a map again, mostly I was out 14 west of Ft. Collins, then north of Rustic.

 

[Cajunrider]

Just think how smart you could be if you get into the habit of logging in every day!

Reel'm in! Reel'm in!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Update pic . Common needle juniper . Collected this spring from a crack on top of granite outcrop . Just allowed to recover . Rather happy . Considering there name is correct . One of the most common trees on our planet . Every continent in the northern hemisphere . And tough as nails . One would not think they would have the reputation of being one of the hardest trees to successfully collect . There seems to be 2 step to success . Surviving the original collection . And then surviving there next repot . So I’m 1/2 way there . I am not to proud to admit my failures . This will be 2 of 5 attempts if it makes it . Sounds poor . But those that have tried will back me up

 

[Kyleboldy2003]

Got some trees flagged for future collection. Several Utahs and a couple of pinyon pines.
View attachment 520844View attachment 520846View attachment 520845View attachment 520847

did you ever collect these did you collect the pinyon pine?