Starting a New Boxwood Literati - Join in With Your Input on this Quasi-Collaborative Thread!

[Anthony]

Hello @my nellie , Hello Grouper.

We have 5 or 6 Boxwood, but the behavior is erratic, indicative
of imperfect adjustment to the Tropics.
Branches die suddenly and until one stabilizes, can offer nothing
on the topic --- Apologies.

When this type of behavior occurs, it often means a short lifespan.
Example - Japanese snow rose ------ dead in 5 years or
Chinese Ligustrum dead in 4 years.
Pomegranate dead in 25 to 30 years only survives down here
because it is planted continuously by Hindus.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[grouper52]

So in conclusion, can we say that you want to work with your tree following exclusively traditional methods?
@Anthony is working his trees mainly with clip and grow technique and he uses the wire very less.

I didn't know that about Anthony, but he's in a tropical climate like I am, and "clip-and-grow" styling originated long ago in the southern, tropical or semi-tropical areas in China, where the year-around warmth and adequate rainfall made it a practical approach to bonsai growth. It takes too long - and therefore it is not practical - in temperate climates where growth is much slower and seasonal, so the Japanese started using wrapped wire last century sometime, if I understand correctly. People here use wrapped wire all the time, and use it in ways that make all their trees end up in the same boringly caricatured style, and this is anathema to this "naturalistic" boy, so I am still using wrapped wire part of the time on most trees, but in a naturaistic style (employing the "baby-bending found in my tutorial), and these I also augment nicely with the equally effective and even more naturalistic clip-and-grow styling from Lingnan. And on this literati attempt I'm going to try to use that styling technique exclusively ... we'll see how it goes, and wish me luck!

 

[grouper52]

Hello @my nellie , Hello Grouper.

We have 5 or 6 Boxwood, but the behavior is erratic, indicative
of imperfect adjustment to the Tropics.
Branches die suddenly and until one stabilizes, can offer nothing
on the topic --- Apologies.

When this type of behavior occurs, it often means a short lifespan.

Anthony

Thanks, Anthony, and sorry to hear about those troubles. I'm at about 6000' elevation where the "tropical" factors seem to have no such effect on many trees that grow down in the lowlands. In fact, the only native species that people tell me simply won't survive the micro-climate up here is the much-prized Pemphis, known here as 'bantigue'." I have one that is doing fine so far, but folks tell me, "Wait until December!", so I may winter it over each year with some folks in the lowlands.

As for boxwoods here, they seem to be one of the few trees that do really well up here, and are amongst the most prevalent ones I see being sold, with many of them obviously many years old. In that regard, the climate is somewhat reminiscent of the Puget Sound area, where I came from - although winters there can get much more decidedly cold - and boxwood grew to old ages very well there. So we'll see, and I'll keep in mind your precautionary notes, which is what I do already: whenever I consider getting a tree from the lowlands I always ask if it will grow/survive up in Baguio, and don't get ones that clearly won't.

I'm glad to hear that you use clip-and-grow there. I'm hoping it will work well on this tree, but I often employ it at least partially whenever I can here, and I always used to do the same back in the States. It creates a much more realistic image than wire does on most trees, and fortunately many people who would say they use wire exclusively are actually doing some clipp-and-grow inadvertantly each time they trim their trees.

 

[Anthony]

Hello Grouper,

6000 feet, like Jamaica, our max is just over 3000 feet, and in
those areas, the land turns to savannah.

I envy you. In Jamaica at 3000 feet, the birds seed the mountains with
celtis, the leaves look like the Celtis l. [ we have from Louisiana 1980 ]
Using a fridge to simulate winter.

No tamarind will probably grow up there - ha ha.

You should have mentioned that height a while ago.
And if you did, apologies for missing it.

Caracas is also around 3000 feet.

You should be in Tierra Templada - and that changes everything
no more [ 200 feet above sea level here ] advice from me - ha ha
You need to talk to Alexandra more.

What does that make you --------- zone 10 /9 ?

Np wonder you are not dying of humidity, 200 feet and a wind channel
here is paradise.
Lowlands ---------- heat rash ville.
Got that every month, last year, trying to help out with a Bonsai Club on the
Western flatland side of the island------ no breeze.

You should have no problem with boxwood.
Stay well, chilly willy
Anthony

 

[grouper52]

You should have no problem with boxwood.
Stay well, chilly willy
Anthony

LOL!

Well, I looked it up, and I seem to have exaggerated a bit, based on what I was told - that the elevation was "Well over a mile high." It's very mountainous, and variable, but the height actually ranges "from 950 -1650 meters, averaging 5000 feet," which only puts the maximum altitude at 5,413 feet, a little over a mile actually. But yes, it's night and day with the lowlands, which is why we chose to live up in Baguio, and yes - while many trees like the boxwood do quite well here, not all the lowland trees do!

 

[M. Frary]

I've came to like literati as I age also.

 

[grouper52]

I've came to like literati as I age also.

My off-the-cuff take on that phenomemon, Mike - old guys increasingly liking literati - is that we are just like those trees, and thus we can relate: With old and well-established roots, from which comes an increasingly prolonged, thin and tenuous life-line of cambium, (with its supportive - but dead - wood), and at the top a ridiculously small - but still evident - tuft of clearly living matter, like a symbolic middle-finger defiantly given to the world, as if to say - like Steve McQueen escaping out to sea at the end of "Papillon," shouting back beautifully to all those who messed with him endlessly on his prison island - "I'm still here, you bastards!"

 

[M. Frary]

Papillon

Great movie.
But the book!
There are actually more examples of literati out there than other styles in nature. I've just recently just began noticing.

 

[Anthony]

Look to Chinese Classical Ink Paintings for the Literati effect.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[grouper52]

Look to Chinese Classical Ink Paintings for the Literati effect.
Good Day
Anthony

Interesting that you should say that: The experts I've read and talked to regarding Chinese bonsai/penjing say the old masters believed the best preparatory education for their students was not to study trees or horticulture - but to study the painting and poetry of the old Chinese masters!

 

[grouper52]

So, here's the chop I chose for now, leaving a few future options, and the extra branches - though all but one will eventually go, will add vigor and growth down below untill such time as I chop them. I'm likely to continue this process for most of the remaining chops until I get near the height and thickness I want, which will take some years.

Any preliminary thoughts about the remaining branches that are now left as future candidates?

 

[sorce]

I'd remove some of the buds by the V.

I like the left way.

Sorce

 

[grouper52]

Thanks, Sorce. Why remove the buds, BTW - what is the thinking? Also, there are three "V"s ... which one?

Another "BTW" ... The other night, going through yet another box of precious books from my past, I was going to respond to your old comment to me - much appreciated and full of insight/wisdom, IMHO - on the "Old Friends" thread a while back, about my renewed affection for my root hook and chop sticks, where you said, "The tools that allow for investigation of the most exciting and hidden part of the mission....." . The inspiration to do so was a quote I ran across somwhere in one of my books of "Red Pine's"( AKA Bill Porter's) translations from the Chinese of old poetry and such, where he quoted someone saying about some sage, perhaps - let's say - Lao-Tzu - "Most educated people talk about twigs, but Lao Tzu talks about roots."

Now however, `despite this thought having spurred me to relocate the original quote to convey to you, and sent me several times on several sevral-hour searches of Red Pine's books of Chinese poetry translations, as well as his translations of the Tao Te Ching and the Diamond Sutra, (the "Just one sutra," of that haiku of mine in the poetry thread), I can't relocate the quote - but the search for it was wonderful, and the quote was only meant anyway as a preface to encouraging you to read his stuff because you of all people I know seem most likely to appreciate it ... and now I'm doing that even without the quote ... is any of that coherent? Would it matter if it wasn't? ... coherence being vastly over-rated, IMHO ...

 

[just.wing.it]

Sorry if I missed it, but are you doing this one all clip and grow?

 

[grouper52]

Sorry if I missed it, but are you doing this one all clip and grow?

Yes, all clip and grow, like the old Chinese literati masters would have done. Thanks for noticing.

I've actually been moving away from wrapped wire for a long time now, long before my move from the Piuget Sound area to retire over here in the Philippines, but clip-and-grow was far less practical back there due to the short growing season. Here, trees are growing like gangbusters all the time, so it works much better. I have long appreciated the different and more natural look to trees grown that way as well, having collected a number of old penjing books over the years, so it's a pleasure to now use it more myself.

My old tutorial here at BNut about "Baby Bending" also reflects my then-growing affection for the use of guy wires whenever possible for general branch placement, rather than wrapped wire.

Here in the Philippines my disaffection for wrapped wire has been solidified by its ubiquitous and highly careless use by almost all the bonsai practitioners I've come across: The quality of the wire is pour - hard to work with - although I brought tons of the good stuff with me from the States, but my main complaint is that they wrap every last branch into stereotyped bends, and then simply forget about it for years, such that the wire deeply cuts way into the branch over time, leaving hideous scars or even killing a number of branches on many trees, when the truth is that growth is so rapid here that the shape the wire creates will be permanent on most plants in a matter of a few weeks or months, and the wire can then be removed.

 

[TN_Jim]

Any updates..?

 

[sorce]

Just found and read this! Thanks! Old Friend!

Why remove the buds,

It's like NOT going to the gas station.
The Car won't know.

In which case...
Grow out is fill it and Drive...fill and drive.

Refinement is like broke folk...
$2.47 on pump 2...
Ain't going that far!

To me...buds are merely potential.
So long as the current canopy is growing roots...I don't find any buds necessary to keep. It's all design then. Only pretty matters.

I found a situation on one of my more dense trees....boxwood..where it was necessary I work a wound clean because later, I would never be able to get in there the same.

You never know when you won't be able to easily access a space again.......

Bud removal is Prevention...a "before" action. That's my zone.

I see the roots .

S

 

[grouper52]

Well, I was just thinking about the next round of updates the last several days ... after the last chop, the tree went very quiescent, just sitting there for well over a month. Then about a week ago I noticed some new growth forming on two of the remaining leads, and since then the growth has gone gangbusters.

I wanted to take a photo of it several times since then, but I thought I would wait for any more photos until the weather improved at least a bit: it's the "rainy" season here in Baguio, which means monsoons, tropical storms, and the occasional typhoon. Typhoon means not only heavy rains, but very strong winds. This season we went through one typhoon, but the rest have just been monsoon rains and sub-typhoon "tropical storms", and they have been intermittent until this week when they have become constant. I can't accurately recall the last day I saw sunshine here, and the rains and winds have steadily worsened in the past week. My wife said some weather guy was predicting that the rainy season would end at 11:00 Am today, but I'm here - at 7PM - to tell you he's very wrong.

I did take a few tree photos a couple of days ago under difficult weather conditions, just because my computer was finally working again after a month of either "being repaired" or "lost in transit" back to me, or being brought back up to working condition after the "repair" wiped out all my old photo-processing apps ... but I didn't take this guy. I'll see if it's feasible tomorrow, and the thread will then continue, but the nature of the project - a long-term one by nature - was to be a stop-and-go one of this sort anyway. Sorry for the extended hiatus ...

 

[grouper52]

Just found and read this! Thanks! Old Friend!

....


Bud removal is Prevention...a "before" action. That's my zone.

I see the roots .

S

Thanks, old friend ... I didn't see this reply before writing the above answer ...

Yes, I see the roots, too ... we would not be good at this hobby if we didn't .. ... but that's why I let the buds bud out: to produce new material/energy to store, mostly in the roots and the cambium, and to keep the tree in an active state of "vigor" so it can go on to the next trauma I throw at it with plenty to spare. The next set of photos will show the tree now rebounding with copious new growth, which not only produces said vigor, but which also produces a wealth of new choices for the next leader.

Interesting that my computer puts an alert highlight under the word "vigor" as if this is some non-word or misspelling!

 

[my nellie]

... ...Interesting that my computer puts an alert highlight under the word "vigor" as if this is some non-word or misspelling!

Obviously, the language your computer prefers is English.
Try writing "vigour" instead of "vigor" and you will have the proof!

I would also appreciate the update photos.