Shohin sized White Pine graft, need some guidance

[kthehun89]

Hello friends,

I have been reading extensively on pines for some time now, and I recently bit the bullet and bought this nice white pine from an online vendor. The tree has been styled and trained for some time, and it is definitely nice material to start with, in my eyes.





As you can see, the tree has nice movement and a very nice black pine root stock, but the graft is nice and visible. It doesn't bother me, but I know some are fairly picky in terms of what it does for tree movement. I do love the size of the tree, at just 8", and the foliage is nice and compact already.

As far as my goals, I really would love to put this guy in a small pot in a suitable rock structure. But before I do that, I have considered putting this tree into a larger grow pot in August, with the goal to be to age it more and allow the graft and trunks to meld together more so over the next years. I'd work on keeping the tree small, not letting it get too out of hand.

I feel as if the tree has some nice potential leaning out from the pot/rock. I have toyed with the idea of carving it some eventually, perhaps in response to the graft area's progress. Thanks for any input or ideas!

K

 

[tmmason10]

I think that the graft will definitely be an eyesore for a long time, and will probably ge worse. I would try and pull some foliage down to hide the graft line if possible. Rob (October) has a similar shohin and he migh have better advice.

Did this come from NE bonsai ?

 

[Paradox]

Did this come from NE bonsai ?

LOL I was thinking the same thing to myself. Could swear Ive seen that tree on the NE website. I really wish they didnt have to graft JWP onto JBP to get them to thrive. I also wish they could do better placements on some of them.

 

[JudyB]

That is the drawback of grafted anything. For the most part the stronger part (lower&roots) grow faster than the top grafted portion. I have a small shohin white pine with the same sort of thing, but I've been able to grow and wire, and move branching to disguise the graft. I think I have a thread here about it, I'll look and see if I can link to it...

If this is your first pine, just take your time. It may be a good idea not to repot it this fall unless you can provide good/great winter protection, especially if this is your first pine. There is some wire I see on the branches, perhaps you can do some extra (careful) bending of the branching now.

here is a link to the thread about my small JWP. As you can see from the second set of pics in that thread, the graft is also pretty evident until the foliage was brought down to hide it a bit. Good luck.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?7604-Japanese-White-Pine

 

[october]

Sure looks like it was a tree from NE Bonsai.

Judy, how about posting some new pics of your white pine in a new thread or in your old thread.

 

[JudyB]

Sure looks like it was a tree from NE Bonsai.

Judy, how about posting some new pics of your white pine in a new thread or in your old thread.

I'm working on updates on all my trees in the next couple weeks. stay tuned!

 

[october]

A nice little tree, but it has quite a few issues. To resolve them, you are talking about many years. Maybe not necessarilly a lot of effort, but a lot of time. One thing you could do, is find a rock with a similar texture like the bark of the tree. Plant the rock right against the tree on he next repot. Maybe even have it so the rock comes up high enough to hide the graft. I think a nice pot and rock would really enhance this tree's image.

Also, as Tom said, you could wire some foliage in front of the graft to hid it. However, this will not hide the reverse taper/no taper of the trunk. Which is why I suggested a rock. This will create a wider visual base to accomodate the tree.

Here is a virt of the kind of rock you could use.

Rob

 

[kthehun89]

Yes haha you guys sure know where trees hail from! I appreciate the links and the input so far! Disguising is probably the way to go...

 

[JudyB]

I think that using this small tree for a learning JWP is the way to go. You can find out much about how they develop, and how to care for them, without the worry of ruining a better one. I did that with my small one. Since I took a few years to learn what to do with them, I got myself a really nice one, and don't have to learn on it.
You can do a lot with this one, with time and artful growth. It'll never be a masterpiece, but the flaws won't always be as apparent as they are now with some work.

 

[kthehun89]

I think that using this small tree for a learning JWP is the way to go. You can find out much about how they develop, and how to care for them, without the worry of ruining a better one. I did that with my small one. Since I took a few years to learn what to do with them, I got myself a really nice one, and don't have to learn on it.
You can do a lot with this one, with time and artful growth. It'll never be a masterpiece, but the flaws won't always be as apparent as they are now with some work.

Thanks for your kind response Judy. That was my intention with this tree. I saw the graft before buying and knew about the aesthetic challenge it proposes. I'm 23 and have plenty of learning to do, but I figure time is on my side to some extent, and I'm very eager to learn the white pine!

 

[kthehun89]

I had an idea that tipping the tree would allow for me to position the trunk/graft such that it's less of an eye sore for now. The angle is pretty sharp, but with the correct stone/pot it will definitely work. Branches will be positioned appropriately at that time. I guess I'll start searching for the proper container, any ideas?

Quick cell pics for now.

 

[kthehun89]

 

[october]

The base/ trunk is the main priority with most bonsai. I like the new angle. Also, try to find a side where the base of the tree is the widest and then it tapers as it goes up. If there is no angle that provides this, try for a view that at least it doesn't go from a thin base to a thicker trunk as it goes up.

Also, you could bury the tree a little deeper on the next repot. If there is some reverse taper, maybe raising the soil line to a point on the trunk where it looks wider is a good option. Also, the buried part may thicken a little quicker if it is underneath the soil.

Both my white pines are from NE Bonsai.

Rob

 

[JudyB]

Both my white pines are from NE Bonsai.

And one of mine (my "good" one) is as well.

I like the new angle, should work well with some wiring help. I would not look for a container for the tree in a finished mode yet. Just get something that perhaps you can do what Rob said, and bury deeper. Only thing is that you'll have to be careful watering in a deeper pot.

 

[kthehun89]

Just a small update on the little guy:

The tree has been growing very nicely during the past weeks. Tree was decandled in the end of spring, and the tree has been throwing out lots of growth. I've been reading blogs, sites, and watching youtube vids to determine my course of action through summer and into fall and winter with the tree. Putting it into something larger is my first priority though, the only thing aside from cleanup that's happening this year for sure. Some pics:









Thanks for looking

 

[october]

Looking very healthy. Progressing nicely also. Before you know it, you'll have a bench full of little white pines. I know you got this one from NE Bonsai. They have quite a few pines for sale at the moment.

Rob

 

[fourteener]

I would play around with the planting angle of the tree. Instead of coming straight up out of the ground, then 90 degrees parallel to the ground, see if there is an angle that looks better but also helps get a branch closer to covering up the graft.

The changed angle at the next repot might help a lot!


This kind of comment is what happens when you don't read the entire thread before posting a comment!! I see you've already done my suggestion. OOPS!!

 

[kthehun89]

Looking very healthy. Progressing nicely also. Before you know it, you'll have a bench full of little white pines. I know you got this one from NE Bonsai. They have quite a few pines for sale at the moment.

Rob

They do!! This one wasn't from them directly, but was sourced from them. Since then I've gotten in contact with Teddi and he managed to get me a gorgeous black pine to work on. That one is a beauty!

 

[october]

Any pics of the new pine?

Also, check their site. There are/were some pines on their. Also, they just came back from California with a huge truck load of new trees.

Rob

 

[JudyB]

Looks like you're doing great with this one. Good for you. Would love to see the new JBP as well!