RED CHOJUBAI [Chaenomeles japonica]

[MACH5]

@MACH5 Sergio how's the chojubai doing? Did it start recovering?

It is doing ok. Perhaps a tad better?? I would say the tree is surviving but not thriving. I am not seeing the type of strong and vigorous growth of a typical healthy plant. I have reached out to Michael Hagedorn and per his suggestion I treated it for nematodes and planted it in a box with lots of pumice all around the rootball to ensure good drainage and aeration. For good measure, I also sent foliage and root samples to the Rutgers plant diagnostic lab. All came back negative. For an additional curveball, I have cuttings growing very well in the same location, using same water and fertilizer.

I pride myself of having a pretty decent green thumb but this plant has been an enigma

 

[coh]

What treatment did you try for nematodes? There may be some kind of predatory nematodes available, Neil was talking about that a couple of years ago though it may have been more for root aphids. Arbco or something similar was the company name I believe...but would have to double check.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

So sorry to hear about this.

Soaking in Zerotal is the nuclear bomb of root treatments. It is usually very effective. (

Often when we see this situation, ‘failure to thrive’ (even after applying zerotal) it indicates a compacted rootball, especially in the core. Thinking you’ve already thought of aerating the core of the rootball?

…..But I’ve also heard Michael say to also use Phyton 35 (copper product) to kill a bacteria inside the plant that is associated with the nematode situation.

Wishing the quince well

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Maiden69]

Well, at least a little good news... I have been watching a lot of the BonsaiQ chojubai videos, they say that they use streptomycin to treat root galls over there. I also think maybe the center of the rootball may be the issue, I guess that's why Michael suggested a box with pumice, to encourage the roots to grow to that area so you can treat the core once its healthy enough

 

[MACH5]

What treatment did you try for nematodes? There may be some kind of predatory nematodes available, Neil was talking about that a couple of years ago though it may have been more for root aphids. Arbco or something similar was the company name I believe...but would have to double check.

ZeroTol bath as per Michael's instructions.

 

[MACH5]

So sorry to hear about this.

Soaking in Zerotal is the nuclear bomb of root treatments. It is usually very effective. (

Often when we see this situation, ‘failure to thrive’ (even after applying zerotal) it indicates a compacted rootball, especially in the core. Thinking you’ve already thought of aerating the core of the rootball?

…..But I’ve also heard Michael say to also use Phyton 35 (copper product) to kill a bacteria inside the plant that is associated with the nematode situation.

Wishing the quince well

cheers
DSD sends

Ha! No, did not try aerating the rootball. Good suggestion and will try that and see. Will also try Phyton 35. Thank you!

Despite nuking the rootball with Zerotol I believe there is still something there.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ha! No, did not try aerating the rootball. Good suggestion and will try that and see. Will also try Phyton 35. Thank you!

Despite nuking the rootball with Zerotol I believe there is still something there.

Heard Michael mention this entire treatment of Chojubai’ s while we were clipping his many plants during an intensive, but he also has posted the entire treatment on his blog. Still would aerate as this can only help.

Here is the link.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[NaoTK]

This may be a good time to ask if anyone has tried grafting chojubai onto Japanese quince stock. All the fun, none of the hassle. Or even something crazy like apple. I will certainly give it a shot come spring.

edit: someone ask Michael. or I will whatever

 

[yashu]

This may be a good time to ask if anyone has tried grafting chojubai onto Japanese quince stock. All the fun, none of the hassle. Or even something crazy like apple. I will certainly give it a shot come spring.

edit: someone ask Michael. or I will whatever

I have heard that all Chaenomeles are susceptible to root nematodes and the following infection so that would still be a potential issue. I also expect you would end up with a situation similar to the white pine on black pine rootstock thing where the graft becomes very noticeable as the rootstock grows much more vigorously than the scion material. That said I’d still be interested to see the outcome of such an experiment.

 

[yashu]

@MACH5 what should I look for in terms of autumn behavior with respect to abscission? The leaves have started dropping on my tree fairly rapidly. There is not much of a foliage color period, they start going yellow and drop within a day. Does this seem normal or what you have experienced with your tree? I’m probably just being overly anxious about this plant but I’d like to be on top of any issues that might pop up.

 

[snowman04]

Hope this goes well. fabulous tree...

 

[MACH5]

@MACH5 what should I look for in terms of autumn behavior with respect to abscission? The leaves have started dropping on my tree fairly rapidly. There is not much of a foliage color period, they start going yellow and drop within a day. Does this seem normal or what you have experienced with your tree? I’m probably just being overly anxious about this plant but I’d like to be on top of any issues that might pop up.

Perfectly normal. Chojubai is a quirky plant of a rather rebellious nature. Typically in August they shed all their leaves. It may appear alarming but completely normal. Once the weather cools off a bit they push again as if it was springtime only to shed shortly thereafter when the hard freezes come.

 

[Paradox]

Perfectly normal. Chojubai is a quirky plant of a rather rebellious nature. Typically in August they shed all their leaves. It may appear alarming but completely normal. Once the weather cools off a bit they push again as if it was springtime only to shed shortly thereafter when the hard freezes come.

Glad this is normal...and yes it's alarming.
My little ones did it again this year.
Last year I thought it was the heat but it hasn't been nearly as warm this year.

 

[NaoTK]

I have heard that all Chaenomeles are susceptible to root nematodes and the following infection so that would still be a potential issue. I also expect you would end up with a situation similar to the white pine on black pine rootstock thing where the graft becomes very noticeable as the rootstock grows much more vigorously than the scion material. That said I’d still be interested to see the outcome of such an experiment.

Sorry to hijack the thread. Regular 'boke' Japanese flowering quince is much less susceptible to root issues. I have never had issues with them. If successful the chojubai would not only grow faster, but have less suckers (and you would have to cut them off) and you could gain frost and disease resistance. The graft union you could make at the soil level. Or even airlayer the graft off, right below the junction.

 

[NaoTK]

edit: someone ask Michael. or I will whatever

Michael says he has not tried grafting chojubai and he hasn't heard of anyone trying it either. He suspects the grafted plant may still be susceptible to root issues, but that's why we need to try it next year
We use flowering quince as roadside shrubs here in Oregon, they are like tanks. I will also try apple, regular quince etc.

 

[yashu]

Michael says he has not tried grafting chojubai and he hasn't heard of anyone trying it either. He suspects the grafted plant may still be susceptible to root issues,

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Perfectly normal. Chojubai is a quirky plant of a rather rebellious nature. Typically in August they shed all their leaves. It may appear alarming but completely normal. Once the weather cools off a bit they push again as if it was springtime only to shed shortly thereafter when the hard freezes come.

My Boke did the same thing around the end of July and now looks as good as ever. Didn't know Chojubai did this as well as I don't have any. Great tree.

 

[yashu]

They are super durable in the ground here in Maine as well and from what I’ve read the nematode issue is much less prevalent in the more northern latitudes. Just like so many other issues we face in bonsai, it’s the “containerized environment” that seems to throw a wrench into the works.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Sorry to hijack the thread. Regular 'boke' Japanese flowering quince is much less susceptible to root issues. I have never had issues with them. If successful the chojubai would not only grow faster, but have less suckers (and you would have to cut them off) and you could gain frost and disease resistance. The graft union you could make at the soil level. Or even airlayer the graft off, right below the junction.

I wonder if climate plays a big role in this. Of the Japanese books I have with care information on Boke, all of them say the opposite - That they're far more likely to have the nematode root cancer issue than Chojubai. Certainly the case with my one and only Boke, but that's just anecdotal I guess.
I do wonder though if chojubai grafted to regular garden boke would grow faster. The only potential downside is boke bark is quite gray and smooth where chojubai is quite black and rough. This would make anything other than a very low graft pretty obvious.
I'm going to have a search and see what I can come up with.

Edit
@NaoTK
It would seem it can be done although not super common. Here are a few I found.

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森<!-- --> - 通販 - Yahoo!ショッピング

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森ならYahoo!ショッピング！ランキングや口コミも豊富なネット通販。LINEアカウント連携でPayPayポイント毎日5%（上限あり）スマホアプリも充実で毎日どこからでも気になる商品をその場でお求めいただけます。

store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森<!-- --> - 通販 - Yahoo!ショッピング

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森ならYahoo!ショッピング！ランキングや口コミも豊富なネット通販。LINEアカウント連携でPayPayポイント毎日5%（上限あり）スマホアプリも充実で毎日どこからでも気になる商品をその場でお求めいただけます。

store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp

 

[NaoTK]

I wonder if climate plays a big role in this. Of the Japanese books I have with care information on Boke, all of them say the opposite - That they're far more likely to have the nematode root cancer issue than Chojubai. Certainly the case with my one and only Boke, but that's just anecdotal I guess.
I do wonder though if chojubai grafted to regular garden boke would grow faster. The only potential downside is boke bark is quite gray and smooth where chojubai is quite black and rough. This would make anything other than a very low graft pretty obvious.
I'm going to have a search and see what I can come up with.

Edit
@NaoTK
It would seem it can be done although not super common. Here are a few I found.

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森<!-- --> - 通販 - Yahoo!ショッピング

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森ならYahoo!ショッピング！ランキングや口コミも豊富なネット通販。LINEアカウント連携でPayPayポイント毎日5%（上限あり）スマホアプリも充実で毎日どこからでも気になる商品をその場でお求めいただけます。

store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森<!-- --> - 通販 - Yahoo!ショッピング

手のひら盆栽 もみじの森ならYahoo!ショッピング！ランキングや口コミも豊富なネット通販。LINEアカウント連携でPayPayポイント毎日5%（上限あり）スマホアプリも充実で毎日どこからでも気になる商品をその場でお求めいただけます。

store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp

This is great! I had no doubt it was possible. I'm looking forward to trying out if there are benefits