Nishiki Gawa vs Arakawa Japanese Maple?

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BigAbs321

Yamadori
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Hey guys,

I was looking to add a rough bark Japanese Maple to my collection, and was wondering if anyone has both the Nishiki Gawa and Arakawa cultivars to compare. Which one is easier to propagate from cuttings? How does the vigor and formation of bark compare between the two? Which one has better growth habits for bonsai? Thank you!
 
why-not-both-why-not.gif
 
I was just curious as to how the two compare. I’ve seen both being trained as bonsai, so was wondering what to expect with both.
 
BigAbs321 said:
Hey guys,

I was looking to add a rough bark Japanese Maple to my collection, and was wondering if anyone has both the Nishiki Gawa and Arakawa cultivars to compare. Which one is easier to propagate from cuttings? How does the vigor and formation of bark compare between the two? Which one has better growth habits for bonsai? Thank you!
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I've seen websites claim Nishikigawa will cork up faster than Arakawa but that can't really be proven without an intensive comparison. Otherwise Arakawa has foliage most closely resembling that of a run of the mill Acer palmatum. The "fingers" on Nishikigawa's leaves are grouped closer together and straighter / more pointed.
 
From what I've seen nishiki gawa has smaller leaves and tighter internodes. I've grown seeds collected from Arakawa before and right now I got seeds from a nishiki gawa Stratifying.
 
I have both growing in pots. From what I can see the leave are very similar... I don't think one can pick out which is which if they just looking at the leave. Will take some pictures when they leaf out in another few weeks.
 
Thanks guys! I’ll try to go ahead and grow both cultivars. It’ll be interesting to see how they develop.
 
Ok, I'm gonna be that guy, usually bite my tongue on this one but...

Arakawa is not actually a cultivar but a feature (the rough bark) which is totally cool. But arakawa refers to the rough bark cultivars ibo nishiki, nishiki gawa, etc. You can NOW get "arakawa" maples imported from Japan, but they are seed grown from the "arakawa" cultivars such as the trees above. So IMO if you are going to pay more money for a cultivar, I'd get a real cultivar where leaf size and internode are documented or even specifically bred for bonsai. Versus some potentially coarse tree dubbed a cultivar name that is actually an adjective. When enough people use a word long enough it becomes a real word/name/cultivar which is a shame in this case as I'm aware of at least one notable grower in America selling "arakawa" maples from seed. The ones that never produce rough bark are just sold as green maples. Not interested in debating anyone, the information is out there if you search for it.
 
also @BigAbs321 if you want to go in on an evergreen order with me we can get some ibo nishiki and split the shipping
 
Thanks for the advice! Right now I’m thinking about getting a rough bark maple from Mr. William Valavanis. I have had good experiences with his seedlings, so it may be a good option for me.
 
I’m personally a fan of the Ibo Nishiki cultivar and my collection of them increases yearly as they root extremely easily. Their bark is more maple-like than the typical ’Arakawa’ variety and the cultivation, leaves, etc is also typical of the species. They bark up very early so you can easily have a 1/8 diameter cutting with mature looking bark. They are really fun to work with.
 
Velodog2 said:
I’m personally a fan of the Ibo Nishiki cultivar and my collection of them increases yearly as they root extremely easily. Their bark is more maple-like than the typical ’Arakawa’ variety and the cultivation, leaves, etc is also typical of the species. They bark up very early so you can easily have a 1/8 diameter cutting with mature looking bark. They are really fun to work with.
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Are you interested in selling any?
 
namnhi said:
I have both growing in pots. From what I can see the leave are very similar... I don't think one can pick out which is which if they just looking at the leave. Will take some pictures when they leaf out in another few weeks.
Click to expand...
How are you growing A. Palmatum here in htx? are they able to be grown without issues? Currently only growing tridents as I've been told to only grow those here.
 
AnutterBonsai said:
How are you growing A. Palmatum here in htx? are they able to be grown without issues? Currently only growing tridents as I've been told to only grow those here.
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mrmaple.com

The MrMaple Files - Japanese Maple Information

The best information source for Japanese maples on the internet are the MrMaple Files on MrMaple.com. These photos and descriptions are written by the MrMaple brothers who love Japanese maples and have a lot of experience with these trees. The MrMaple Files are best information on Japanese...
mrmaple.com
 
leatherback said:
What is your source? I do not know any better than that Arakawa is a registered cultivar.

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Arakawa is recognized all over as a cultivar. Just like “ain’t” made it’s way into the dictionary. But even the link you provided calls it the “arakawa maple group”. I can look around for references it’s been years since I read all this
 
GGB said:
Ok, I'm gonna be that guy, usually bite my tongue on this one but...

Arakawa is not actually a cultivar but a feature (the rough bark) which is totally cool. But arakawa refers to the rough bark cultivars ibo nishiki, nishiki gawa, etc. You can NOW get "arakawa" maples imported from Japan, but they are seed grown from the "arakawa" cultivars such as the trees above. So IMO if you are going to pay more money for a cultivar, I'd get a real cultivar where leaf size and internode are documented or even specifically bred for bonsai. Versus some potentially coarse tree dubbed a cultivar name that is actually an adjective. When enough people use a word long enough it becomes a real word/name/cultivar which is a shame in this case as I'm aware of at least one notable grower in America selling "arakawa" maples from seed. The ones that never produce rough bark are just sold as green maples. Not interested in debating anyone, the information is out there if you search for it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. Didn't know this
 
@leatherback here is/was a great rundown of what I was talking about. The person leading the discussion is an importer from what I remember, but here's a the thing... the website is still up and running but seems to be having difficulty today. I can't open it on any device but I'll copy and paste it here assuming they will fix the problem on there end shortly.
 
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