Everyone is crazy about bonsai but they ain't posting any comparisons :confused:!
To me it's an Asian Art form an that's that. If it's done in this country it's an Asian art form isn't it?
How can anyone change a centuries old Oriental culture?
And why would one want to?
 
Everyone is crazy about bonsai but they ain't posting any comparisons :confused:!
To me it's an Asian Art form an that's that. If it's done in this country it's an Asian art form isn't it?
How can anyone change a centuries old Oriental culture?
And why would one want to?
You're right, however; that does not mean the art is not suitable to be modified.
 
Wanted to thank everyone for continuing the discussion! And hope that the ball keeps rolling! I think having the discussion is a healthy one, and worth having!

I have been on a whirlwind of a tour the past couple of weeks, getting ready for the show, taking trees to show, picking up trees from show, driving a lot of miles, staying in hotel rooms, and then after catching a flight to DC, stopping by the Arboretum, and tomorrow catching a train to Baltimore for a cousins wedding...only to have to return back to Tampa on saturday... so crazy town!

Anyways... as I mentioned was at the Arboretum today, with my wife and a couple of friends we are visiting in DC... was pretty cool. We were walking through looking at trees, going through the different sections of Japanese trees, Chinese trees, and American trees...

One of my friends who does not really know bonsai, but was extremely interested in them, looking at them and learning about them... turned to me as we where about to leave and asked what was the difference between the 3 different styles? To him, they looked all the same...

I told him "walls"...

He, looked back puzzled... I then said... see, the one's on this side of the wall were Japanese, the one's on the other side were Chinese, and the one's beyond that, were American. Without these walls, no one would know the difference.
 
. Without these walls, no one would know the difference
Because there is no such thing as American bonsai.
It's all just bonsai.
I don't go out into my yard thinking I'm growing American bonsai.
I'm only growing plain old bonsai.
In America.
 
Last edited:
Hell,most of the time I'm thinking I'm not even growing bonsai.
Just trees.
For me, it is all about just creating something bad ass! Most people in my opinion, are too anal retentive... Always find it funny how many people show up to tell you your wrong, about stuff...
 
For me, it is all about just creating something bad ass! Most people in my opinion, are too anal retentive... Always find it funny how many people show up to tell you your wrong, about stuff...
Sad really , most will try to knock you down and very rarely praise good work. I guarantee there will be alot of stir about your pieces at the nationals. Good and bad I'm sure but people will be talking about it , and that's what it's all about making an impression on others. Good work keep it up man
 
Sad really , most will try to knock you down and very rarely praise good work. I guarantee there will be alot of stir about your pieces at the nationals. Good and bad I'm sure but people will be talking about it , and that's what it's all about making an impression on others. Good work keep it up man
It is the old theroum that no publicity is bad publicity. I believe this to be only true provided it is not the only publicity.
 
To pretty much answer all of your questions with one simple answer, is because I am Japanese...


Kinda like Taco Bell... not really American and not really Mexican either.

As far as them being too Frenetic, keep looking... it will come to u!

As for answering my question about the cloths Karakusa, actually you did not answer it at all, but avoided it altogether. Trying to hide the fact you do not know the answer because you have not taken the time to study in depth. Every time I have asked you a sincere and serious question about scrollmaking, whether it is technique, theory, or history you use the argument that some people are too in love with Japanese things to get "it".

And not really quality food at all...

Actually, I have probably looked at your displays in depth more than most of the posters on this thread....I will never like it and will never have a peaceful calm feeling when I look at it...But there will be those who like it, and I do not discount nor discredit their opinions. But in my final opinion, I feel your attempt to define American bonsai display in the way you used your Kakejiku (wallscroll) is disrespectful towards the art of hyousou.
 
As for answering my question about the cloths Karakusa, actually you did not answer it at all, but avoided it altogether. Trying to hide the fact you do not know the answer because you have not taken the time to study in depth. Every time I have asked you a sincere and serious question about scrollmaking, whether it is technique, theory, or history you use the argument that some people are too in love with Japanese things to get "it".

And not really quality food at all...

Actually, I have probably looked at your displays in depth more than most of the posters on this thread....I will never like it and will never have a peaceful calm feeling when I look at it...But there will be those who like it, and I do not discount nor discredit their opinions. But in my final opinion, I feel your attempt to define American bonsai display in the way you used your Kakejiku (wallscroll) is disrespectful towards the art of hyousou.
Johnathan, you are 2 funny!
Where 2 start?
Let me just say that from the get go, of me doing Scrolls... I have not once, nor will I ever try and "hide" the fact that the formalities and traditions of scrolls have never been of concern to me. In fact, I tell people this all the time.

This is what I find so interesting... I believe I even told you when we were having our face to face chat in Saratoga Springs a couple if years back, that none of that concerned me... Still doesn't! So, trying to call me out on the fact that I don't know something, when I tell people I don't know it all the time, is pretty much laughable, right?

What you haven't quite come to terms with is that no one cares about this except for u... This is why when you post up the work you do in a thread, and discuss all of the various factions of the scrolls you do and their meanings, all laid out with their various Kanji translations... no one responds. Because, for the rest of the population this is boring as shit and puts them to sleep. I mean, not trying to knock you down here, or even trying to call you out for it... you love what you do, I respect you for it and hope that you continue to do it!

But, for most... they will never get it, don't want to get it, and don't need to get it in order to try and do what they need to do, in order to have a scroll displayed with their tree. All they need to know is perhaps what side it should be displayed on and if the picture is cool... right?

Which is all I have ever done... and in fact is the whole reason why I started doing them in the first place, because people liked my Chinese Brush Paintings, and asked if I did them. I am an Artist, this is why people come to me to me, because of my painting abilities. They like my work, it is reasonably priced, i dont take 4 yeara to make it and the art is really good. I am not a Scrollmaker, to me this is the equivalence of being a picture framer... a job for people who are not the artist to do. I simply make them, because I am asked to, and if it means one more Avenue to sell my product, then that's what I have to do...

I mean, I understand there is some animosity here... Seeing I am the guy who knows little about scrolls, yet is selling all of the scrolls... but, the reasoning behind what is happening, has more to do with business and understanding one's potential client base is, what their needs and demands are, and working to make this happen. This, along with the fact that I paint the Art... right? Which is no fault of mine, that it is the most important part of the scroll...

Moving on...

I want to say, i have never said in my lifetime people are 2 in love with Japanese culture to get anything... or not get anything, You must be confused. I merely said to you in my last reply that I am not Japanese... so therefore I should not have to abide by their culture, nor should it be a requirement that I have to thoroughly understand their culture. I have my own culture, which takes up enough time, without having to try and learn others.

In my culture, we are not so simple, and art does not have to be calming. In fact, it can, and often is just the opposite. It also can be complex as well. We are not simpletons who have a nervous breakdown due to over stimulation , and to much to look at. In fact, in my society we are often exposed to complex images, with a lot going on... on a daily basis... and some how we all seem to make it through the day just fine!

Lastly, thought I would just put it out there that your concerns over the scrolls might further be exhausted... when I continue on with some follow up posts as well as pictures, when I return from being out of town, which I had planned on doing before I left, but had to much to do.
 
Last edited:
Forgot to also mention that I am not too concerned either with being disrespectful towards the art of hyousou...

First off, I don't know what this is...
Second, I am sure there are worse things...
Third, hopefully they have more important things to do!
 
Johnathan,

I mean, I understand there is some animosity here... Seeing I am the guy who knows little about scrolls, yet is selling all of the scrolls...

Stacee....oops I spelled your name wrong, sorry....

I have no animosity...And I sell plenty...got a $3K plus check the other day for one project, in fact...and that is pretty typical...
So yes I am just a framer....but some people will understand the value of the frame and the time and precision it takes to make it by hand. And yes, it takes a long time, but it is also considered to meet certain archival, and museum standards.

Forgot to also mention that I am not too concerned either with being disrespectful towards the art of hyousou...

The attitude in this reply defines exactly how you feel about the art of "framing". And...I will leave it at that because you have every right to exist and do what makes you happy.
 
This seems to be another thread on the "American Bonsai" topic that will end without resolution. However, I find it very flattering that the Japanese took something that is so indisputably American and not only nailed it but created some outstanding examples of the art: http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/12/this-is-japanese-hot-rodding/ Just some food for thought...
 
This seems to be another thread on the "American Bonsai" topic that will end without resolution. However, I find it very flattering that the Japanese took something that is so indisputably American and not only nailed it but created some outstanding examples of the art: http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/12/this-is-japanese-hot-rodding/ Just some food for thought...
Thats awesome, i bet they are not concerned 1 bit wether it looks japanese or not.
They just build cool cars.its just like bonsai, they just do bonsai..
 
This seems to be another thread on the "American Bonsai" topic that will end without resolution. However, I find it very flattering that the Japanese took something that is so indisputably American and not only nailed it but created some outstanding examples of the art: http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/12/this-is-japanese-hot-rodding/ Just some food for thought...
Vin, the whole point of the thread was just to show my contribution to the American Bonsai scene. So, mission accomplished and thread resolved!

All the rest of the discussion is just discussion over what people believe is and is not American Bonsai.
 
Vin, the whole point of the thread was just to show my contribution to the American Bonsai scene. So, mission accomplished and thread resolved!

All the rest of the discussion is just discussion over what people believe is and is not American Bonsai.
I certainly don't disagree about your contribution to bonsai in America although I do find it odd that you created a thread about yourself. But, that's just you and I'm okay with that. The way I view bonsai in America is there are basically two opposing sides. You have the Traditionalist that want to keep with Japanese styles, traditions and such. Then you have the Progressives that want to move bonsai past what many consider "the right way." These two forces are continuously pulling each other toward their own side. The battle continues.
 
I certainly don't disagree about your contribution to bonsai in America although I do find it odd that you created a thread about yourself. But, that's just you and I'm okay with that. The way I view bonsai in America is there are basically two opposing sides. You have the Traditionalist that want to keep with Japanese styles, traditions and such. Then you have the Progressives that want to move bonsai past what many consider "the right way." These two forces are continuously pulling each other toward their own side. The battle continues.
Why so odd? Everyone posts what they are doing all of the time? That's the whole point of a forum... to post and share.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vin
Why so odd? Everyone posts what they are doing all of the time? That's the whole point of a forum... to post and share.
I hope my comment didn't come off disrespectful but the title kind of sounds like we're there already (American Bonsai). Take no notice.
 
I hope my comment didn't come off disrespectful but the title kind of sounds like we're there already (American Bonsai). Take no notice.
Was not offended in the slightest!
Was just asking the question, because I didn't understand.
 
Back
Top Bottom