My Contribution to "American Bonsai"

[A Random User]

Because I can.
See what, you have missed with your previous rant, and negative comments regarding my work, is that it is not up to you to decide what is and what is not Bonsai. Not up to anyone... Bonsai does not have to be peaceful and tranquil, it can be what ever the Artist wants it to be... and as far as I can tell from my International Bonsai Police Manual, I see nothing in rules, to the contrary. Just because you think we should all go skipping through the forest holding hands, does not mean we all actually have to...

Oh... and there was nothing really hard about bringing the concept I did... time consuming perhaps? Wasn't to much of a stretch for me... the tree looked like a soldier, so I ran with it. Easy peasy...

Let me just say, that my response had little to do with having thin or thick skin... and even less about being an Artist.. but, instead had more to do with the actual fact the the person I was responding too has never actually posted on any thing I have ever posted here at the Nut, with any Ioda of a civilized conversation... he clearly holds some beef with me, that is fine... but, this beef is always reflected in any comments that he makes towards me. So, sorry if I did not respond in such a way that you think is proper.

As to his veiws... if he would like to actually have a "normal" duscussion regarding them, I am all for it... would much prefer this instead of just coming and posting the only post he did regarding the matter, which by the way you will note was pretty much negative, and condensing from the start. His bad attitude, in fact you will note I actually blew off by just posting more images of my work... Why? Because until he wants to actually voice his views in a civilized manner is not worth the discussion. I hold no objections to what he says... he is entitled to these views! As I am mine... but he is not entitled to come and trash what I have done and expect me to be polite. Does not work that way.

Now, if you were to read all of what I have posted in this thread... you would clearly note that I never said anything had to be like the work I have done... merely asked why it can't be what ever someone wants it to be, and why people are saying it can't. .. and thus you would of not had to of wasted your time typing.

All I did was post pictures of what I was doing, which to me represent the American Bonsai scene, seeing that yes I am an American doing bonsai, and this as an American is what I am doing... you and others perhaps have the right to think the meaning of what American Bonsai is constitutes something entirely different. .. that is fine. I have the right to disagree.

I have never said "Hey, look at me!", nor does my work say that... it is just Art. You and others are interpreting what I am saying and what I have done to mean this... your fault, not mine...

Read back through what I have actually written from the beginning and time after time again, you will find... that time after time the only thing I have asked or said is why cannot this be what I am claiming it to be, why does it have to be only what you say it should be... and why if someone holds a different view than yours they are any more wrong than you are right? Never once have I told someone that they are wrong, or that their views are necessarily wrong... just perhaps have disagreements over their views being to only view someone should have... in fact I actually agree with them, but also disagree at the same time... I can do this, because I don't feel life is always a simple case of being only one answer. And as we all know, Art can and does encompass a whole range of thoughts and views. This is what makes art great. Clearly, however for some this is not the case... and in fact I must be wrong, and they will not be satisfied until they prove that i am wrong... because it does not say in their Bonsai Police Manual, that it can be otherwise... what kind of BS is that?

Never once said anyone had to like what I was doing, nor have I tried to force someone to... just shown my work people... You would of thought I dragged everyone's first born out into the streets? What, do I now have to ask everyone's permission before creating a piece of Art?

You guys need to get a grip on the made up hysteria that you are putting out... it's silly!

 

[coh]

All I did was post pictures of what I was doing, which to me represent the American Bonsai scene, seeing that yes I am an American doing bonsai, and this as an American is what I am doing... you and others perhaps have the right to think the meaning of what American Bonsai is constitutes something entirely different. .. that is fine. I have the right to disagree.

So, what if I do a display for a show and exactly follow classical Japanese styling, i.e. use of scroll, accent pieces, etc, as you might see at Kokufu. A classic tokomona type display. Yet I am American....do I call that "American bonsai" or "American display"? If not, where is the break point? Do I have to make all my components, or arrange them differently...no matter what, I'm still an American.

This sounds a lot like the classical versus naturalistic debate that never really gets anywhere.

 

[Vance Wood]

Never once said anyone had to like what I was doing, nor have I tried to force someone to... just shown my work people... You would of thought I dragged everyone's first born out into the streets? What, do I now have to ask everyone's permission before creating a piece of Art?

You guys need to get a grip on the made up hysteria that you are putting out... it's silly![/QUOTE]

This can all be summed up as you stated in your last sentence. You keep doing what you have been doing and don't worry about the people that do not like it. Tough Mammary Gland; Herronimus Merken. It is better to be creative in your own way than to be un-creative and bow to the opinions of the less artistic. In the end we are either graffiti experts or Rembrandts. Only history can tell.

 

[mcpesq817]

Let me just say, that my response had little to do with having thin or thick skin... and even less about being an Artist..

Well that's certainly for sure.

So you write these long posts full of hubris and chest thumping, and then attack people who take an opposing view? That makes for a productive discussion.

And yes you can do whatever you like with your trees and displays. And yes art can encompass a range of thoughts and views. Doesn't mean everyone has to agree with or like what you are putting out there. If you don't like your work getting criticized, don't put it out there. It would be one thing if you just posted your display and left it at that. It's your attitude though, and the "I'm a prophet for American bonsai, how dare Bill V. not put in my trees that have had 2 or 3 years (or less) of training into the National Show" rants that naturally subject you to stronger criticism.

 

[sorce]

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

Well that's certainly for sure.

So you write these long posts full of hubris and chest thumping, and then attack people who take an opposing view? That makes for a productive discussion.

And yes you can do whatever you like with your trees and displays. And yes art can encompass a range of thoughts and views. Doesn't mean everyone has to agree with or like what you are putting out there. If you don't like your work getting criticized, don't put it out there. It would be one thing if you just posted your display and left it at that. It's your attitude though, and the "I'm a prophet for American bonsai, how dare Bill V. not put in my trees that have had 2 or 3 years (or less) of training into the National Show" rants that naturally subject you to stronger criticism.

Yeah... the funniest part about this is that I didn't even attack you, just said you have a beef with me and it shows in the now 3 times you have ever posted on my threads. Thanks for quote literally proving my point! You are just a Troll.

 

[mcpesq817]

Yeah... the funniest part about this is that I didn't even attack you, just said you have a beef with me and it shows in the now 3 times you have ever posted on my threads. Thanks for quote literally proving my point! You are just a Troll.

I'm a troll because I didn't quite get your display? Quite the narcissist, aren't you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

 

[A Random User]

I'm a troll because I didn't quite get your display? Quite the narcissist, aren't you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Not at all... you must of missed the point where I responded that you don't have to get my display? Perhaps you were too busy trying to figure out how to just personally insult me?

Which would be why I called you a Troll... and you are... You had the choice to come and voice your opinion in a positive way... you are allowed to do this... However, this is not what you have done since you started posting. You have chosen to throw insults from the get go, which I have not done to you and are uncalled for. When I posted this thread, I don't recall with my opening post asking for some one to come and personality attack me, do you?

If you want to come and voice your opinion, do so... but at least you could be respectful, right? I mean who does this, and then expects to be treated in a positive way? Which is what you are asking me to do... and now throwing even more insults, because I am not I guess stupid enough to now do it twice? I mean, do I also have to go to Wikipedia and post up the definition of a Troll for you to understand that this is what you are doing?

If you want to act like a civilized individual, I am all for it, and would love to talk on a respectable level. I have not come to one of your posts and attacked you... nor have I said your work is crap. Why? Because you haven't posted a single tree that I can recall in all the years of me being here, and because if I don't like someone's work, I at least have the respect to say so on a level that actually has to do with Bonsai, or I don't post at all.

If you would like to start over... please feel free to do so. I would welcome it! Accomplishes alot more than what we are doing now, right?

 

[A Random User]

Clearly we are done here seeing that this thread is now heading south and Sorce has resorted to posting up pics of Weird Al...

Wanted to personally thank everyone for their compliments, their objections, and adding to the discussion!

 

[sorce]

I just think it's tacky....

That's the first thing that came up googling tacky.

I think it's a play on the Happy Pharrel song. But I never heard it.

Sorce

 

[eferguson1974]

Jeeeez get a room!

 

[mcpesq817]

From the link:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder, characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of empathy for others.[1] People with the disorder often come across as arrogant, callous, and envious, and tend to be exploitative in their interpersonal relationships. They can be excessively preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. As a personality disorder, those with NPD generally have poor insight into their condition and may not acknowledge that their behavior causes problems for others or for themselves.

 

[A Random User]

Internet troll
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
"Trolling" redirects here. For other uses, see Troll (disambiguation).
"Please do not feed the troll" redirects here. For the Wikipedia advice, see Wikipediaeny recognition.
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.

This sense of the word "troll" and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[4][5]

 

[A Random User]

I just think it's tacky....

That's the first thing that came up googling tacky.

I think it's a play on the Happy Pharrel song. But I never heard it.

Sorce

Cool...
Tell me then what you would do different?
I need meat and potatoes... I am not an individual who believes we should be a "sound-byte" generation... Was not raised this way. My teachers as a kid growing up in school, always said fine you don't like something, explain why and how you would do something different... And in actual words, not the normal stuff you post. So, perhaps we all can learn.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

 

[A Random User]

While @source digs deep for words with meaning... Lol!
I thought I would share a photo without the Scroll, seeing that there seems to be some concern over
the actual quality of the tree, by folks who funny enough never actually post any trees? Not sure what that is
about? But hey... decided I am not going to let them have the last word and trash my thread... perhaps that's just the Narcissist in me?

What I would do different?

As I touched on before... I think I did a pretty nice job with the pot... But, in hindsight, have learned how hard it is
to create a form fitting pot as this is without actually being able to put the tree in the pot. So, there are some areas here
that most certainly could use improvement and would loved to see different. However, seeing that this was my first pot of
this size and nature, and being under the time frame that I was, I am quite pleased with it.

As far as the tree... I wanted to portray a tree with very little foliage... I like the look of some of the cherries, before they first
come into real bloom. So, in order to achieve this I removed a lot of the foliage... which is always a tough call of what to remove
and what not? In hindsight, and looking at this photo of before removal, and comparing it to the one in the display, on the
first post of this thread... I would of liked to of perhaps kept a bit more of the foliage... perhaps somewhere in the middle?
Always hard to decided, and once it is gone... Good thing is I will have a second chance, seeing the tree will be at Nationals,
which I am looking forward too, and getting excited about!

 

[sorce]

Too shallow to understand?

All my shit has meaning except for those who can't see past....

Well...that's the Narcissism.

Tacky is what it is....
And when I looked it up...
Found out it originated in the rural south...

So you know what I mean...

That last pic....
No longer tacky...

Not too many ugly colors that don't go well together..
Not overdone.

Not impossible to look at for longer than a brief moment....
After which...vomiting is likely.

I like the last pic.

Stop trying to insult me.
It will never happen!

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

Too shallow to understand?

All my shit has meaning except for those who can't see past....

Well...that's the Narcissism.

Tacky is what it is....
And when I looked it up...
Found out it originated in the rural south...

So you know what I mean...

That last pic....
No longer tacky...

Not too many ugly colors that don't go well together..
Not overdone.

Not impossible to look at for longer than a brief moment....
After which...vomiting is likely.

I like the last pic.

Stop trying to insult me.
It will never happen!

Sorce

No need for me to try and insult you...

So, too many colors, that don't go well together in your opinion. So, am I to take it you would like the scrolls if they had less color? Or would it not matter?

 

[sorce]

Possibly....but there is So much going on in such a small space still....

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

Thought I would pull up this thread cause I am getting the Tea ready for Nationals and I needed to find a quick picture of it with it's backdrop...

Then I started going through some of the comments, and could not help but think how big of douch-bags some people are.

I always find it amazing that people who don't do shit, have never done shit, and will never do shit, are always the first to try and criticize other people's work. I guess they have to try and compensate somehow, Right? Then to top it off... they expect their opinion to be respected, as though it is worth a crap... go figure?

Anyways, gotta get back to work! I will not be able to make it personally up to Nationals... I will be sending my tree up, so hopefully some of you will be able to see it!
Cheers Big Ears!