bumblebee
Mame
Your pot is beautiful.
My Contribution to "American Bonsai"
- Thread starter A Random User
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The pot is pretty impressive. The wholes display works well together.
But too me, its a bit kitch and the display has too much of a "theme"
Not sure if "themed displays" is an american way?
Japanese bonsai and display to me, its not just about displaying the tree, offcourse that is important however the main thing in a traditional display is to improve the whole environment, the display, with or without scroll doesnt matter, works very well together with the japanese room and the display area. Its not set up as seperate display with doesnt fit in with the rest. At least to me it is. This is something i felt when i went to a bonsaishow once which was set up in an old castlebuilding.
From an outsider, i would think "american bonsai" would at first be about using typical american species though
Grtz
But too me, its a bit kitch and the display has too much of a "theme"
Not sure if "themed displays" is an american way?
Japanese bonsai and display to me, its not just about displaying the tree, offcourse that is important however the main thing in a traditional display is to improve the whole environment, the display, with or without scroll doesnt matter, works very well together with the japanese room and the display area. Its not set up as seperate display with doesnt fit in with the rest. At least to me it is. This is something i felt when i went to a bonsaishow once which was set up in an old castlebuilding.
From an outsider, i would think "american bonsai" would at first be about using typical american species though
Grtz
kakejiku
Chumono
Previous poster says we do not understand the nuances of Japanese culture...in the display.
So my question is why would you use a Butsu Hyougu designed cloth in the first display, without any religious theme or Buddhist image in the painting...
The cloth's karakusa (arabesque) also has symbolic meaning.
I have made several scrolls of natural elements as well. Maybe I do not sell as much as Stacy, but I work a bit slower, because I use traditional handmade techniques.
In my opinion, American bonsai as installations that often follow established patterns with elements that the intended American audience can relate to are best received.
See the display of the best in show in 2014 USNBE for reference.
In another opinion, most Western displays do not utilize the concept of Ma (space/use of space/lack of empty space). They are too frenetic for my eye to digest the theme.
So my question is why would you use a Butsu Hyougu designed cloth in the first display, without any religious theme or Buddhist image in the painting...
The cloth's karakusa (arabesque) also has symbolic meaning.
I have made several scrolls of natural elements as well. Maybe I do not sell as much as Stacy, but I work a bit slower, because I use traditional handmade techniques.
In my opinion, American bonsai as installations that often follow established patterns with elements that the intended American audience can relate to are best received.
See the display of the best in show in 2014 USNBE for reference.
In another opinion, most Western displays do not utilize the concept of Ma (space/use of space/lack of empty space). They are too frenetic for my eye to digest the theme.
A Random User
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To pretty much answer all of your questions with one simple answer, is because I am Japanese...
I stated this at the beginning in response to I believe Adair ' s post? And in the title of the thread.
Kinda funny isn't it? Not traditional enough for some and somehow too traditional for others... So, not really Japanese, or Chinese for that matter and not really American either... perhaps they are Japerican or even Amerinese? Kinda like Taco Bell... not really American and not really Mexican either.
As far as them being too Frenetic, keep looking... it will come to u!
jomawa
Shohin
Congatulations on accomplishing that very feat very stunningly. Your focus was not the tree is portrayed quite well. And congratulations on being included in the US National too, that's impressive and quite an honor.
Just my bonsai newbie ponderings, yet from an American with more than six decades of thought processes. A true bonsai can most definately stand alone, (and maybe it should), and the Japanese have a very acute grasp of that fact. Focus on what you want focused on. Your comment about trees in nature having things around them is accurate, but when one takes a photo of just the tree or simply mentally focuses out all but the tree, a different scenario is created, somewhat like focusing on a giant bonsai. Natural creativity can be stunning. Lets try replicating it. Oh, wait, that's bonsai.
"American Bonsai" tends to be an oxymoron. Bonsai is a stunning tree, American Bonsai is clutter around what may be a stunning tree but the stunning tree is not really necessary. True bonsai will stand alone, regardless the nationality of the artist/craftsman. Much of American culture is characterized by our clutter or stuff. That which tends to be labeled "American Art" as opposed to simply being "Art" is oftentimes a randon/designed hodgepodge of our junk, with feces and or a trashed American flag sometimes thrown in for good measure. My observation is that many of todays "bonsaists" are falling/moving farther and farther from the tree, or from the original bonsai meaning. Unfocused clutter and disrespect combined with "art" is often the American way.
Hobbyists (like myself) and newbie bonsaists need a different term than bonsai to describe our "creations". We need a politically correct term, a non accusatory term which doesn't point out my/our bonsai idiocy/deficiency. "Mallsai" is a good start. We also need a term which means "wishful thinking yet deluded bonsaist's crappy stick in pot". "Long tall straight trunked abomination without low branches" could use a name, with a distinction between evergreen or deciduous.
OK, I'll quit because I'm starting to ramble.
Again @sawgrass, congratulations on your stunning achievements.
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Thanks, i appreciate it! although I think with the first quote of mine there might have been more to the story? My intention was to create a nice display that worked with the tree. If not, I could of just placed a stand there only, or just a scroll.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
.Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Hear hear!
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Maybe.Very arrogant and obviously prejudiced toward Japanese(and YOUR)standard attitude.
Most of those trees, the yamadori junipers, are only 5 or 6 years off the mountain. Expertly styled. Fantastic deadwood.
But how can those compare with trees that have been trained, styled, and refined for 30 or 40 years? Or more?
Take Bill Valavanis's maples. He's been trading those trees in pots for 30 years. They've been bonsai for5 or 6 times as long as those collected junipers. Sure, the junipers are 150 or more years old, but all that was God's doing, not man's.
To me, "Artisan's" means that the person creating the trees is an artist. Is taking something from the wild, formed by centuries of harsh weather and putting it in a pot, and yes, styling it with wire, more "artisan" than taking cuttings and growing them, shaping them, over a lifetime?
To me, it's almost like plagiarizing! Stealing God's creation and calling it your own!
Don't get me wrong... The trees are fantastic. But, they don't compare with the trees the Japanese have done with their native trees. Our trees will get there, the Japanese just have a 50 to 100 year head start! Their trees weren't refined either 5 years off the mountain.
Put things in perspective. There are great things happening in the Pacific Northwest bonsai scene. You guys are lucky to have access to great "starter stock" from up in the mountains. But having such great stock doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be improved upon.
Not at all. I dont know anything about palmtreesA most amazing Sago palm(Cycad)! Any idea of its age?
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Maybe a lot of those Japanese trees being used as points of reference could be considered over-refined? I mean, come on...perfectly smooth canopies with not a leaf out of place, perfect flat-bottomed pads. If "American bonsai" brings about a bit of relaxation there, maybe it's a good thing.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
""Artisan's" means that the person creating the trees is an artist"
Artisan is not the same as artist.
By definition-- Artisan a worker in a skilled trade, especially one that involves making things by hand.
They are not artists, but their work when done well, can approach art. I think that is what Ryan was getting at with the title.
Artisan is not the same as artist.
By definition-- Artisan a worker in a skilled trade, especially one that involves making things by hand.
They are not artists, but their work when done well, can approach art. I think that is what Ryan was getting at with the title.
Ok. That works.
@coh. Yes, I agree that refinement can be overdone. Where I usually see it is not the tops of the pads, and the grooming of foliage, it's the bottoms of the pads where they are perfectly level and flat. Yeah, I like them clean, with no hanging foliage, but a little "softness" takes the edge off.
Some of this is just fashion. Trends come and go. Skirt lengths rise and fall!
Still...
There is just no way possible that trees 5 or 6 years off the mountain can compare with trees collected 60 years ago. (Assuming "equal" quality when collected and "equal" skilled bonsai artists.)
Bonsai takes time. The trees displayed at last year's Artisans Cup will be better 20 years from now.
augustine
Chumono
Sawgrass,
I like your displays, keep at it, and I like your artwork. You're in new territory which makes many folks uncomfortable.
I think one of the aims of art is to open the mind. Make it a point to exhibit your work in public.
Best,
I like your displays, keep at it, and I like your artwork. You're in new territory which makes many folks uncomfortable.
I think one of the aims of art is to open the mind. Make it a point to exhibit your work in public.
Best,
drew33998
Masterpiece
My contribution will be an American flag in the background with a pitbull figurine viewing stone. The stand will be an old moonshine still. Merica'
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I have to agree with Adair.
The displays are beautiful, but they don't feel "American" to me either.
Exactly what American bonsai should be, I don't know for sure.
I think we are talking about trees, style and display but these have to be considered seperately imo.
What follows are my thoughts on the subject.
I think we can start to examine this issue with this question: what are Japanese bonsai trees, style and display?
Is it the "green helmet/ broccoli" style using Japanese native trees with scrolls depicting Japanese scenery and themes or is it something else?
I lean towards "American bonsai" as being done with trees native to the U.S. (not just the northwest, there are eastern U.S. species as well) and displays with American scenery and themes (again, not just west). As for style, I feel a more naturalistic style would be one to strive for. This could include styles such as the iconic oaks of the south or the wild rugged trees in the mountains.
I disagree that American bonsai should be defined as such because the creator is American. Can not a Japanese or a European make an American style bonsai or an American make a Japanese style bonsai?
I understand what the movement is striving for but sometimes the more I think about it, the more absurd it becomes. I don't know what the answers are but I do know that anything that can promote and raise awareness of bonsai in the U.S. in a positive way is a good thing.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It is absurd; because in trying to creat a thing where none exists is usually an exercise in futility. American bonsai will happen when Americans stop trying to make it happen. When artist find themselves in a position where everything is defined as being something else, coming up with original ideas, without concluding in something contrived, becomes the futility in the process.
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Starfox
Masterpiece
I really like the trees, displays, pots and the whole set up. I would be quite happy to spend some time in front of it and soak it all in and I'm glad you have shared them with us and also the other information and pictures, I have enjoyed this thread too and all the comments and differing opinions. As a newbie it really opens my eyes a bit to a side of bonsai that I'm not at yet.
Still as that newb I am not sure I can really comment on what Japanese or Chinese styles are in depth let alone an American style, at least when it comes to the more artistic package and not a stand alone tree but what I can tell is this does differ from the more traditional displays I have seen(granted that is not much) and I quite like it.
Horticultrally I wonder what can be done to impart a certain style that is different to a tree and aside from tree choice I don't even know how to approach such a venture but by imparting a theme with the whole display package I can see where you can and I think what you have accomplished is firstly quite excellent and secondly "different" and in a good way.
As to American bonsai I will leave that up to you North American natives to work out, after all I'm just an Australian living in Spain married to a French girl with kids born in Belgium, it's tough enough to work out what I identify with.
I think you have done something great with these displays and have expressed yourself in a way I hope you are happy with, and after all that is all that matters isn't it?
I'll also add what this has made me think about is if I had to display my trees what I would actually do. First thing would be get a displayable tree, but the possibilities are endless.
Still as that newb I am not sure I can really comment on what Japanese or Chinese styles are in depth let alone an American style, at least when it comes to the more artistic package and not a stand alone tree but what I can tell is this does differ from the more traditional displays I have seen(granted that is not much) and I quite like it.
Horticultrally I wonder what can be done to impart a certain style that is different to a tree and aside from tree choice I don't even know how to approach such a venture but by imparting a theme with the whole display package I can see where you can and I think what you have accomplished is firstly quite excellent and secondly "different" and in a good way.
As to American bonsai I will leave that up to you North American natives to work out, after all I'm just an Australian living in Spain married to a French girl with kids born in Belgium, it's tough enough to work out what I identify with.
I think you have done something great with these displays and have expressed yourself in a way I hope you are happy with, and after all that is all that matters isn't it?
I'll also add what this has made me think about is if I had to display my trees what I would actually do. First thing would be get a displayable tree, but the possibilities are endless.
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