Gabler
Masterpiece
And don't forget white mulberry.
Learning the trees on my land (anything useful?)
- Thread starter Lcogginz
- Start date
And don't forget white mulberry.
Lcogginz
Seedling
4/24 update:
I've learned today that the weird tree right next to the house, that doesn't look like anything else on the property, is a persimmon tree. Who knew? No persimmons ever though, since we only have one.
Also found a Winged Elm, which was a nice surprise--seems like the elms are favorable for bonsai in general. Gonna be trying some cuttings from that one probably, and looking around it for little ones.
I've learned today that the weird tree right next to the house, that doesn't look like anything else on the property, is a persimmon tree. Who knew? No persimmons ever though, since we only have one.
Also found a Winged Elm, which was a nice surprise--seems like the elms are favorable for bonsai in general. Gonna be trying some cuttings from that one probably, and looking around it for little ones.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
North American Persimmons (Diospyros Virginiana) are great trees. BIG native persimmons are getting rarer and rarer. Wish native persimmon were more common as bonsai. They're not common and I haven't been able to find one small enough to dig, but I'm still looking. There was a huge old mature tree in a field near me. It was toppled to make room for houses...
Lcogginz
Seedling
Any idea how they do with cuttings? What I'm reading online is mixed. The tree we have is 40 feet tall probably, so cuttings are my only option unless I find saplings (which seems unlikely given its yard placement).
Goodbrake
Yamadori
At least with other persimmon varieties, I think that root cuttings are a more common method of propagation.
Gabler
Masterpiece
I'm planning to dig a couple of small saplings as soon as the leaves harden off, following the recommendation to work the roots of persimmon in the early summer. If princess persimmon methods prove effective to keep Virginia persimmons alive in containers, then I'll collect and/or propagate some more, so I have enough to share.
For what it's worth, the material I'm collecting isn't great bonsai material. It's just a couple of straight sticks. I'll probably have to style them as brooms if they make it through 2025. The real value is in the experiment to see whether I can keep them happy, since the horticulture is apparently tricky.
Goodbrake
Yamadori
I'm doing something similar with the TX persimmon, applying princess persimmon techniques to see if they transfer. I have one nice trunk I collected in February that's slowly putting out buds now, (in retrospect I should have collected it in summer), but everything else is just test material for working out the technique.
sevan
Mame
I collected some fruit from a native persimmon 2 years ago and planted the seeds. The next spring it was cut down to make room for a house (well, the yard next to a house). I was planning to play with them for bonsai, but if they survive I will probably plant a small grove in my yard instead.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Texas persimmon is more widely used for bonsai than the Virginiana. There was a very nice larger Texas persimmon in the front 10 acres of my parents' place in Texas. Was going to try to collect it, but never got around to it. Most of the persimmon here are just telephone pole straight small trees and the offspring of the big one that was felled. That one was spectacular, was about 50 feet tall and had pagoda-like tiered branching and bore fruit every year (wait until after the first hard freeze to eat the fruit because before that it is BITTER).
As for cuttings, they might take. I would think some techniques that work on Asian varieties might work on North American species, but they're largely untamed, non-domesticated, unless you're buying one of the nursery grown cultivars. I've got to scout some better ones out in the coming couple of years.
Goodbrake
Yamadori
Probably due to the size of the fruit.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It's weird, but I've noticed there is considerable variability in the size of the fruit on individual Virginiana trees around here. Some are as big as a small plum, others can approach apple size. Might be environmental.
Goodbrake
Yamadori
Might also just be genetic variation. If someone cultivated a line of consistently small fruited Virginiana, I bet people would latch onto that pretty quickly.It's weird, but I've noticed there is considerable variability in the size of the fruit on individual Virginiana trees around here. Some are as big as a small plum, others can approach apple size. Might be environmental.
Owlman
Seedling
Hackberry will definitely be around the stream.
Also for Oak, I have heard that they can sometimes be dug after leaves emerge. It's controversial but I have experience collecting a few white oak yamadori in early summer successfully.
Also for Oak, I have heard that they can sometimes be dug after leaves emerge. It's controversial but I have experience collecting a few white oak yamadori in early summer successfully.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
- 23,642
- USDA Zone
- 5b
About the American persimmon tree, Diospyros virginiana, they are monoecious, meaning each tree is single sex, either all male flowers, or all female flowers, at least for 98% or so of the population. So the tree that flowers but doesn't fruit, it's a male. Keep it. Plant a batch of seedlings. In about 7 years seedlings will flower. Keep a few with pistolate flowers, and you will have fruit every year. Seed sex ratio tends to be 50:50, so you only need to raise 6 or so from seed for a 97% chance of at least one female. But the more you raise the more bonsai fun you can have.
The other 2% is a mix of diecious (having flowers of both sexes) and female trees that will produce fruit after flowering without being pollinated. Fruit from flowers that were not pollinated will be seedless.
Commercial Japanese persimmon are all the seedless types that produces fruit without pollination. If they get pollinated, they will have seed.
The other 2% is a mix of diecious (having flowers of both sexes) and female trees that will produce fruit after flowering without being pollinated. Fruit from flowers that were not pollinated will be seedless.
Commercial Japanese persimmon are all the seedless types that produces fruit without pollination. If they get pollinated, they will have seed.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
- 23,642
- USDA Zone
- 5b
The genus Diospyros includes maybe 100 species, most are tropical. This genus includes the "true ebony" species. Even American persimmon, if near 100 years old will have about 4 inches diameter of true ebony heartwood in the lower portion of its trunk. Though it's very rare to see old growth American persimmon.
Fruit is ripe when calyx is easy to twist free from the top of the fruit, usually just before first frost. The fruit is slightly soft to touch and nice spice fragrant to the nose. They usually hang well on the trees until late December, dehydrating and getting sweeter. Frost softened persimmons taste much like sweet dates but less spice fragrance. So it is "not wrong" to leave persimmons hang until after a freeze, but if you can catch them just before, when the calyx twists easy, you are in for a special treat.
Eat a persimmon that's not fully ripe, the tannins will turn your stomach, leaving your mouth feeling like it's turning to shoe leather. Unripe 'simmon will put you off your food for 4 hours at least. Only large quantities of beer can wash away that taste. I know.
Fruit is ripe when calyx is easy to twist free from the top of the fruit, usually just before first frost. The fruit is slightly soft to touch and nice spice fragrant to the nose. They usually hang well on the trees until late December, dehydrating and getting sweeter. Frost softened persimmons taste much like sweet dates but less spice fragrance. So it is "not wrong" to leave persimmons hang until after a freeze, but if you can catch them just before, when the calyx twists easy, you are in for a special treat.
Eat a persimmon that's not fully ripe, the tannins will turn your stomach, leaving your mouth feeling like it's turning to shoe leather. Unripe 'simmon will put you off your food for 4 hours at least. Only large quantities of beer can wash away that taste. I know.
Goodbrake
Yamadori
Unripe persimmon is used in East Asia to create a dye for fabric and paper that also acts as a waterproofing agent and insect repellent.
PerryB
Shohin
I have a 5 year old (to me at least) Diospyros virginiana cultivar (Well's ???) that I bought from Edible Landscaping in Afton, Virginia. It’s been in a bonsai pot from the start and is now about 10" tall with 3/4" diameter trunk. This year it bloomed for the first time--4 blooms. 2 fruits formed but I cut them off in early July.
It’s grafted, but already the graft is almost indistinguishable.
It’s grafted, but already the graft is almost indistinguishable.
Attachments
PerryB
Shohin
It's actually a Weber cultivar grafted on native persimmon stock:
---- -------- ------
1 4217-1 Weber American Persimmon Size: 1 of Quart Pot grafted on Native Persimmon Seedling - $23.00 $23.00 $0.00 $23.00
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Afton, Va.? I'm familiar with the area. Lived over the mountain from there for a long time. Afton and the Rockfish Valley are home to many fruit orchards, a mix of species that aren't seen very often in such close proximity. The specific elevations of the mountains there were scoped out by Thomas Jefferson (as local folklore has it) and marked out for agriculture. There are vineyards and peach orchards on the lower slopes, apples up higher. Peaches and grapes require warmer conditions, apples require cold. There aren't as many peach and apple orchards left compared to back in the day, but PLENTY of vineyards now.
Similar threads
