John Naka's Bonsai Techniques 1. FREE

[M. Frary]

I know we are getting a little far afield here, but I have an MBA. Best class I took at Kellogg was a course in Business Ethics. I don't think your education level is any way related to your moral compass... ...unless you are an attorney. (LOL just kidding - see what I did there?)

I saw a little lawyer humor.

 

[larlamonde]

The post inspired my to the point I am searching for a copy to buy. As said the text is hardly readable. I think everyone should settle down. The poster was just trying to share information with us all and I thank them for that. Slippery slope??????

 

[Eric Group]

What do you consider a reasonable price?

Well I would hope to find one for less than $50, but I don't think that is reasonable for this particular text

 

[lordy]

Well I would hope to find one for less than $50, but I don't think that is reasonable for this particular text

I just contacted a person who seems interested and offered mine for $45 shipped.

 

[fore]

I bought I and II yrs ago...for cheap as I know I was broke back then lol But I had NO idea that they had become so expensive. Surprising given the much of the info is out dated.

 

[agraham]

" much of the info is out dated. "

It's heresy to say that, even if true. They're more like collectors items now. It's like owning part of USA bonsai history. Until this morning, I hadn't looked at mine for years.

 

[Dav4]

" much of the info is out dated. "

It's heresy to say that, even if true. They're more like collectors items now. It's like owning part of USA bonsai history. Until this morning, I hadn't looked at mine for years.

I've had BT II sitting in the wicker basket next to the toilet in the master bathroom for years. It's usually on the bottom, covered by a bunch of People and Cosmo mags, but I know it's there.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

By the way... on the inside of the title page of this book is the following text:

Copyright @1973 - 1993 by John Yoshio Naka
All rights reserved.
No part of this book may be reproduced in any form, by mimeograph or any other means, without written permission of the publisher or author.

 

[berobinson82]

By the way... on the inside of the title page of this book is the following text:

Copyright @1973 - 1993 by John Yoshio Naka
All rights reserved.
No part of this book may be reproduced in any form, by mimeograph or any other means, without written permission of the publisher or author.

In which case OP broke no laws.

 

[fore]

" much of the info is out dated. "

It's heresy to say that, even if true. They're more like collectors items now. It's like owning part of USA bonsai history. Until this morning, I hadn't looked at mine for years.

LOL, me too!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

In which case OP broke no laws.

Date of first copyright notice is 1973. First copyright term is 28 years, with option to renew for 67 years (total 95 years). I have no idea if the copyright was renewed - but it seems probable since the deadline was prior to John Naka's death.

Note that if revisions are made and new editions printed, the new material in the new editions can be covered under separate copyright, so even if the majority of a work falls into public domain, sections of the work may still be protected. Given the last copyright date of 1993, at least some material in the book is protected through 2021, and maybe longer - since I may not have the last / final edition of the book. Assuming the 1993 date is the final edition, the earliest the work in its entirety would fall into the public domain would be 2021, and if the estate (or owner of the copyright) decides to renew, at least parts of the book would remain under copyright through 2088. 95 years is a LONG time.

(by the way, notice how in the online scan of the book, the original scanner "conveniently" left out the copyright notices page)

 

[bonsaiBlake]

As a financially challenged bonsai enthusiast I thank you eric for posting this. I've read the whole thread and book, and wow. I can see both sides of this one. I can't say how Mr. Naka would feel about his book being out there for free. All i know is i dont have the resources, financial or physical to progress in bonsai the way i would like to. Links and sites like this allow me access to information that would otherwise be unavailable to me.

And not sure how many of you guys remember the "golden ratio" thread, but Mr. Naka uses the ratio as explained in this book on pages 16,17, & 18. I found this extremely interesting.

P.S. After viewing this link I most certainly will be purchasing a copy of both volumes as soon as resources allow.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I most certainly will be purchasing a copy of both volumes as soon as resources allow.

It shouldn't cost a mint. They were selling new copies at the Golden State Bonsai Federation show for $60. There are still new copies out there - some of the California bonsai vendors stocked quite a few. Demand on the west coast may be somewhat low... because many of us already have copies. Just taking a quick peek online, you can buy a used copy on Amazon right now for $82, shipped. That seems high to me - but certainly lower than some of the crazy prices I have heard tossed about.

 

[berobinson82]

Date of first copyright notice is 1973. First copyright term is 28 years, with option to renew for 67 years (total 95 years). I have no idea if the copyright was renewed - but it seems probable since the deadline was prior to John Naka's death.

Note that if revisions are made and new editions printed, the new material in the new editions can be covered under separate copyright, so even if the majority of a work falls into public domain, sections of the work may still be protected. Given the last copyright date of 1993, at least some material in the book is protected through 2021, and maybe longer - since I may not have the last / final edition of the book. Assuming the 1993 date is the final edition, the earliest the work in its entirety would fall into the public domain would be 2021, and if the estate (or owner of the copyright) decides to renew, at least parts of the book would remain under copyright through 2088. 95 years is a LONG time.

(by the way, notice how in the online scan of the book, the original scanner "conveniently" left out the copyright notices page)

I also read the pertaining laws. The guy who scanned and posted this link is definitely in breach. Just not the original poster in this thread. Correct?

I tried to find an answer, but failed to do so: Have you found a law saying that posting a link to copyrighted material is against the law?

Not trying to bite ya. I spent some time trying to find a credible source to that question and came up short. In the spirit of learning, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Cheers,

B

 

[bonsaiBlake]

yeah I have a total of somewhere around 150$ invested into the hobby, most of which has been soil, a few ebooks(non over 10$), and seeds. I have 9 trees, all of which i hesitate to even call pre-bonsai. Still young and life aint cheap, but bonsai is slowly becoming a larger and larger portion of my budget.

 

[Eric Group]

As a financially challenged bonsai enthusiast I thank you eric for posting this. I've read the whole thread and book, and wow. I can see both sides of this one. I can't say how Mr. Naka would feel about his book being out there for free. All i know is i dont have the resources, financial or physical to progress in bonsai the way i would like to. Links and sites like this allow me access to information that would otherwise be unavailable to me.

And not sure how many of you guys remember the "golden ratio" thread, but Mr. Naka uses the ratio as explained in this book on pages 16,17, & 18. I found this extremely interesting.

P.S. After viewing this link I most certainly will be purchasing a copy of both volumes as soon as resources allow.

Exactly what I had in mind when posting the link, glad you got something out of it Blake. I would encourage you to buy both... Pretty much the definitive English resource for bonsai! More advanced/ up to date books are available... Books that focus more on specific species... People with updated ideas about soil, care, technique... But to learn the basics and just "get it"... This is what you want to read.

Every time I read it, even after doing this for 15 years or so, I see something I never noticed before, or understand something in a different way because I have tried to do it myself now.... When I had a copy like 10-12 years ago I don't think I realized what exactly I had... I was more into the big books with lots of cool pictures! LOL

 

[bonsaiBlake]

Exactly what I had in mind when posting the link, glad you got something out of it Blake. I would encourage you to buy both... Pretty much the definitive English resource for bonsai! More advanced/ up to date books are available... Books that focus more on specific species... People with updated ideas about soil, care, technique... But to learn the basics and just "get it"... This is what you want to read.

Every time I read it, even after doing this for 15 years or so, I see something I never noticed before, or understand something in a different way because I have tried to do it myself now.... When I had a copy like 10-12 years ago I don't think I realized what exactly I had... I was more into the big books with lots of cool pictures! LOL

I do my picture browsing online. I like more content when it comes to my reading, thus i spend hours pouring through forums and horticulture articles, but to finally have access to the true beginings of american bonsai is a big thing for me and i appreciate you posting this. Especially since Naka's trees and plantings were some of the first i looked at, and was inpspired by, when starting the hobby. I learned a ton from this book. It help me to understand some of the more advanced topics(propagation techniques, styling conversations) i've been reading. Really just the why and how behind bonsai I've been trying to find.

 

[michaelj]

Oh the SHAME of being involved in such nefarious criminal activity! Please don't send the cops to come get me, they may uncover my sinister ring of illegal jaywalkers...

It's punishable by 3 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000. So not quite the same as jaywalking, although the jaywalkers probably get busted more often.

I was saying I don't know how the copyright laws work in regards to the site where this book was posted- is it a foreign website?

No, SlideShare is not a foreign website. The person who posted is is from outside the U.S., but from a country that is part of the Berne Copyright Union and the Universal Copyright Convention. So it is not at all impossible to intelligently discuss the legality of his posting John Naka's book.

Even if it did, how do you know I didn't post this in the hopes that it would draw attention that would eventually lead to this item being removed and the micrient responsible being thrown into the deepest darkest dungeon imaginable?

Because you started with "Ever wated a copy of this book just to read but can't afford the $200 price tag to get a copy these days?" and because you titled the thread "John Naka's Bonsai Techniques 1. FREE"

And yes, mere linking activities could expose you to liability for contributory copyright infringement or trafficking in circumvention technology in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). How those laws apply to this sort of infringement and linking to the infringing site isn't entirely clear, and nobody knows when, if or how the courts will address it. I'm sure you won't be the next test case. But in my opinion, that's not the main point. John Naka did a lot for American bonsai, and I think it's disrespectful to put his copyrighted work out there for free without permission. You may think it's no big deal and it's cool. I know the website is illegal and I think it's not cool.

 

[Eric Group]

It's punishable by 3 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000. So not quite the same as jaywalking, although the jaywalkers probably get busted more often.



No, SlideShare is not a foreign website. The person who posted is is from outside the U.S., but from a country that is part of the Berne Copyright Union and the Universal Copyright Convention. So it is not at all impossible to intelligently discuss the legality of his posting John Naka's book.



Because you started with "Ever wated a copy of this book just to read but can't afford the $200 price tag to get a copy these days?" and because you titled the thread "John Naka's Bonsai Techniques 1. FREE"

And yes, mere linking activities could expose you to liability for contributory copyright infringement or trafficking in circumvention technology in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). How those laws apply to this sort of infringement and linking to the infringing site isn't entirely clear, and nobody knows when, if or how the courts will address it. I'm sure you won't be the next test case. But in my opinion, that's not the main point. John Naka did a lot for American bonsai, and I think it's disrespectful to put his copyrighted work out there for free without permission. You may think it's no big deal and it's cool. I know the website is illegal and I think it's not cool.

Well, that's great man! I happen to think you are wound up tighter than a tick's ass and that you are re-posting the same "I am a robot, incapable of detecting your sarcasm so I will reference laws and punishments that should scare you" bullshit that a couple other people have posted here. You yourself said "how those laws apply to this sort of infringement and linking to the infringing site is not clear"... So you are basically admitting you have NO CLUE what you are talking about and just railing against it because you think it is "not cool"? Ok, great. We are all entitled to our opinions I guess.

Personally I think any bonsai fan, practitioner, hobbiest, newbie... Should read this book and without having an idea of what a great resource it is, many of them probably never would go off searching for a copy of a 35+ year old text written by a man who is deceased and no longer practicing Bonsai. This link is great because it gives them a preview of just how valuable of a resource it is, but it is a dumpy copy and very hard to navigate in this digital format. So, anybody who wants to really read the whole thing or have it as a reference tool- which is going to be most of the people who are first introduced to it in this form- are going to eventually have to buy a copy of the book. At the very least this is the exact opposite of disrespect, at best it will help them sell MORE copies and help more people learn more about Bonsai... Which IS pretty "cool"... And by bringing up more discussion about the book we have had multiple people post info on how to fid. copies of it! Again... Pretty cool.

Save all your "3 years in prison, $250,000 fine... Digital millennium copyright act" BS for a scary bedtime story to tell a three year old... I am no more on the hook for posting a link to this site than Al Gore is for "inventing the Internet" which has allowed people across the world to share in the illegal piracy of EVERY form of intellectual property known to man. I swear some of y'all actually believe this crap don't you? SMH...

 

[jk_lewis]

1. Naka's books are no longer the resources they used to be. Few need to have read them in other than a historical context.

2. Methinks you protest too much; must be feeling a big guilty, eh?