Getting collected trees into a nice pot

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I need to find out if Kurt can bring in some Anderson flats, 40-50 dollar shipping really kills it for me, although I do really want some. I can make them out of metal, or even with a plastic bottom with metal sides, well actually I could make them out of pvc with un perforated sides. I think the andersons would be about perfect. i guess i should make some.

Hey @Waltron - if you think you would need 50 Anderson flats, just order them direct from Anderson - I like model 2408B - http://www.andersonpots.com/products/anderson-flats/

They come in stacks of 25, and minimum is 2 stacks. They also have other useful size pots, but it is a minimum that is more than the casual hobby person would not want to meet. Shipping is extra, but to Chicago, the shipping meant that the flats only cost between $6 and $7 each. Though my last order was 5 years ago, so I am not certain of today's prices.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Shimpaku are way more cold hardy. I've 1 out there that's been through last winter and the previous one.
To look at them they seem delicate but they take the cold as well as procumbens or parsons which I have both of.

I agree, Shimpaku are very hardy, my home in Illinois is zone 5b, and I leave the shimpaku out on top or underneath the bench all winter, no real protection, and they have pulled through fine every year, we are talking 20 years or more of 5b winters. I believe protected from wind and winter sun, they are hardy though all of zone 4.

Japanese maples, I'm in zone 5b in Illinois, and I can not leave Japanese maples out under the bench, they must be protected, I use an unheated, below ground well house. JM are not a hardy species, should really be listed zone 6 or warmer.

The family group owned farm is near South Haven, MI, it is solidly in zone 6a, when Illinois is cold, the farm tends to be 5 or more degrees warmer. The farm is 9 miles from "The Lake", if it were less than 3 miles, along the same east-west highway, it would be in zone 6b or 7a, warm enough for wine grapes. We can only do French-American hybrid grapes, which isn't bad, but not the cash cow wine grapes are. The family is debating whether to put the money out for trellising, to plant a vineyard. or to just add more blueberries. So we're kicking around numbers. Wine grapes get a dollar a pound more at the broker than French-American hybrid grapes. Concord grapes pay so low, most farmers can't afford to grow them, at $7 per hundred weight, concord grapes won't pay average farm real estate tax for the acre they grow on. But that is ranging into politics, it is cheap frozen concord juice from Chile and China that is killing the USA grape producers. Think about it next time you buy concord grape juice, the juice probably came from somewhere other than a USA farm.

 

[sorce]

suggestions

This inspired me to dig a couple boards out of the garbage the other day.

@markyscott I got my drywall tape ready!
What is the largest gap you've covered with it? I would like to go 1/4in.

Good thread.

Sorce

 

[markyscott]

This inspired me to dig a couple boards out of the garbage the other day.

@markyscott I got my drywall tape ready!
What is the largest gap you've covered with it? I would like to go 1/4in.

Good thread.

Sorce

1/4" should be no prob. Be sure to staple it down. It'll stay in place better.

 

[sorce]

1/4" should be no prob. Be sure to staple it down. It'll stay in place better.

I just...oh man...
I just grabbed it for a feel...
And I totally get stapling it!

Thank you!

Sorce

 

[Waltron]

Jack Pine I think is one of those species that will be less forgiving I have a nice one I have wanted to collect for a few years but I want to go in with the right technique first. I haven't tried collecting one yet.

I just came across this old thread: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t3270-pinus-banksiana-clump and it got me thinking how much I like the jack pine.

I remembered I found this huge one, wish I could figure out a way to get it home. Maybe try my hand at some Niwaki lol.

 

[mattspinniken]

I just came across this old thread: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t3270-pinus-banksiana-clump and it got me thinking how much I like the jack pine.

I remembered I found this huge one, wish I could figure out a way to get it home. Maybe try my hand at some Niwaki lol.

The one I have been thinking about is huge too and I may try cutting back the roots on one side and backfilling for 1 year. niwaki! Do it, and post pics

 

[Waltron]

Yea that is probably a good idea.
here's a white pine I collected 3 years, really on the fence about it. think it might be a cool yard tree to mess with and prune, but then im going to want to pot it up eventually haha. Think ill do some candle pinching and shaping to it this spring.

 

[wireme]

Yea that is probably a good idea.
here's a white pine I collected 3 years, really on the fence about it. think it might be a cool yard tree to mess with and prune, but then im going to want to pot it up eventually haha. Think ill do some candle pinching and shaping to it this spring.

Looks like it put on some decent girth already!

Here's a juniper half bare rooted in the box this past spring, was collected in 2014.

I did mostly half or partial bare roots for collected conifers from about 2006-2014. The last couple years I've done more complete bareroot all in one go type deals. I think I'll go back, partial has worked better for me generally or at least growth has slowed down less with partials. It's becoming a fair space of time for experience now I guess but not huge numbers of trees, only like 1-5 per year kind of thing.
Eastern species may be different I think I've heard thuja roots can be worked and cleaned pretty quickly and aggressively relative to some western conifers.

 

[Waltron]

some good root growth there, have you collected and pinus banksiana? the jack pine is known for being very finicky about root disturbance, I think they might need some extra precautions and time when potting and reducing the original soil. it seems they could be a great species if they could be established. Ive transplanted quite a few red cedars and they seem to take rather easily. hoping to come across a ground juniper or something so I can join the juniper club. I did find a nice old red cadar by some railroad tracks I might mess with this year though.

 

[wireme]

some good root growth there, have you collected and pinus banksiana? the jack pine is known for being very finicky about root disturbance, I think they might need some extra precautions and time when potting and reducing the original soil. it seems they could be a great species if they could be established. Ive transplanted quite a few red cedars and they seem to take rather easily. hoping to come across a ground juniper or something so I can join the juniper club. I did find a nice old red cadar by some railroad tracks I might mess with this year though.

Nope, they don't grow here. The Ontario guys have successfully collected and established some real killer jacks over the years though so it can be done. I don't know any details.

 

[mattspinniken]

That White Pine put on a lot of nice girth in the ground. A friend of mine has a nice cascade Jack Pine that he has been developing for over 10 years probably 20 years. Do you see many Jack Pine that could be really good @Waltron ? Like I said, I have found one that I like and I am afraid to screw up but for the most part the Jack that I see are sort of un-interesting. There has to be an area in Michigan or the U.P. that has some smashoid Jack Pine but I have no idea where to find them.

I think I've heard thuja roots can be worked and cleaned pretty quickly and aggressively relative to some western conifers.

This is true, although it is safer to leave some field soil, you can basically bare root a Thuja at the time of collection if it has nice bit of fine roots (it seems like most do have plenty of root at collection).

Two years in on that very nice Juniper and a ton of roots! Looks good!

 

[wireme]

That White Pine put on a lot of nice girth in the ground. A friend of mine has a nice cascade Jack Pine that he has been developing for over 10 years probably 20 years. Do you see many Jack Pine that could be really good @Waltron ? Like I said, I have found one that I like and I am afraid to screw up but for the most part the Jack that I see are sort of un-interesting. There has to be an area in Michigan or the U.P. that has some smashoid Jack Pine but I have no idea where to find them.


This is true, although it is safer to leave some field soil, you can basically bare root a Thuja at the time of collection if it has nice bit of fine roots (it seems like most do have plenty of root at collection).

Two years in on that very nice Juniper and a ton of roots! Looks good!

I wish I had pics of the couple Jacks I was shown in Ontario. Small medium trees but every bit as old and gnarly looking as the best western collected pines of similar size.i think they came from a harsh lakeside bedrock type place.

 

[mattspinniken]

I have seen some pictures of nice ones as well. Jack pine do tend to have a nice small needle size naturally and good bark. I think its time to try a few of these.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Jake pines are on my list of trees to seek and collect. They are a short growing season pine, much like a mugo. I'm betting that summer repotting would work well with them, though I might still do collecting in spring, or summer or anytime the ground isn't frozen.

My latest jack pine, a grafted on Scott's pine select dwarf, I repotted in August. If it wakes up in spring, I'm going to stick with a mugo schedule and do all my work in summer. If it dies, I'll go back to a more conventional schedule with my next victim.

I really do think for northerners, Vance Wood's mugo schedule is the way to go.

Jack pine is only native to areas in zone 4 and colder. It is not a pine for southerners to try. I recommend it for those in zone 6, and colder. Further south I'd expect problems.

 

[Tieball]

Jake pines are on my list of trees to seek and collect. They are a short growing season pine, much like a mugo. I'm betting that summer repotting would work well with them, though I might still do collecting in spring, or summer or anytime the ground isn't frozen.

My latest jack pine, a grafted on Scott's pine select dwarf, I repotted in August. If it wakes up in spring, I'm going to stick with a mugo schedule and do all my work in summer. If it dies, I'll go back to a more conventional schedule with my next victim.

I really do think for northerners, Vance Wood's mugo schedule is the way to go.

Jack pine is only native to areas in zone 4 and colder. It is not a pine for southerners to try. I recommend it for those in zone 6, and colder. Further south I'd expect problems.

Does a Jack Pine back bud if branches are cut back?....or if a larger sized tree is reduced in height?

 

[M. Frary]

Does a Jack Pine back bud if branches are cut back?....or if a larger sized tree is reduced in height?

Yes.

 

[Waltron]

That White Pine put on a lot of nice girth in the ground. A friend of mine has a nice cascade Jack Pine that he has been developing for over 10 years probably 20 years. Do you see many Jack Pine that could be really good @Waltron ? Like I said, I have found one that I like and I am afraid to screw up but for the most part the Jack that I see are sort of un-interesting. There has to be an area in Michigan or the U.P. that has some smashoid Jack Pine but I have no idea where to find them.

No I dont see many great ones, and Ive looked at thousands, they grow in large planted stands. however I do have some photos of potentials, so they are out there. I think the smashoid ones would be from snow mobiles, think trails. I am also on the constant hunt for the illusive fir and red pine as well, and I havent written off the easten white either. Aruther Jurora has a nice one, just need a small one with old bark and they will grow great.

 

[mattspinniken]

@Waltron I have a lot of Jack Pine growing on my property, some could be good but none are amazing. I'm going to use some of them to try and learn about their collecting. It will take a few years to see any results to learn from but I'll keep you posted.

Here is one from Canada, not sure of the owners name but it is very nice.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Waltron

I have been repeatedly frustrated trying to work with P. strobus, but if you can find one with a decent trunk that actually has mature bark, it would be worth the try. Don't bother with any too young to have plated bark.

Thuja - eastern white cedar has a lot of potential. Definitely worth spending time learning how to handle. You should seek these out. Undercut stream banks are a good collecting location too.

Pinus resinosa - American red pine - I was startled to see the pollen of the red pines on ''the farm'' - the pollen was bright red, red with a slight orange hue to it. Cool. As bonsai I imagine it would work well for medium to larger size styles. The long needles are an issue, but the needles are shorter than a Ponderosa pine. If you could find an interesting trunk, go for it. They do grow fast enough, it might be worth twisting up some seedlings and grow them from scratch. Techniques as for P. sylvestris should work. It is another northern pine, likely won't do well much south of Chicago.