Extended season starting trees indoors

[cmeg1]

Such an awesome setup you've got going. I was wondering the other day, you get such vigorous growth on these, could you grow a tree that was 5-10 years old (or even older) with a setup like this? I know the economics wouldn't really work if you had just 8 trees sitting on your table vs. 1500 cuttings. But could you achieve the growth that might normally take 15 years with a "normal" methods in like 5 years with a hydro setup like this?

Thanks.

Yes I do that with my Siberian Elm……Its not even 2 years old yet!!!!!!!
give a basic 1000 hour dormancy and start early indoors….about a whole extra season almost….needs to have summer and Autumn outside though for natural hardiness.

 

[cmeg1]

@cmeg1 can't wait for this to start producing. I may not buy often but I know a lot of people will. Once you get going you may be able to add more varieties for bonsai... since your environment is more controlled you may experience less crop failures with cultivars that are difficult to propagate on greenhouses outdoors.

Yes,thanks.Considering ——Magnolia Stellata—Korean Hornbeam -f coreana—-and more Siberian Elm—-Zelkova——Possibly Trident Maple.

I have seeds germinating for all these.The plan is to start around mid-August..through late Summer-Autumn and all through Winter and put outside in Spring for sales…or hold till Autumn 2024….will be super trunked trees for sure with that head start.

I love the idea of single trunk trees…maybe some ground layers like I did my Elm and just have some nice 3/4” whips with massive nebari ready for styling…….at least some will be layered…it made my Elm look so nice……then again the seedlings really swell in the mini-blocks of Grodan too.

Will be a fun year.

 

[cmeg1]

Just remember that you cannot breathe CO2 (alone) and CO2 triggers blood acidification (like in a soda) as well as hyperventilation/suffocation responses when too high concentration. That’s how a scuba diving rebreather works. It has calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2) in the tank so when you breath out CO2 it can react to kick off a water molecule and sequester the CO2 out of the exhaled air as calcium carbonate (CaCO3) so you can breath in that same oxygen again for much longer. It’s the CO2 buildup that would be a problem first with rebreathing the same air.

It is amazing how much co2 is exhaled with every breath……like 45000 ppm..every single breath.

If I work in my growhouse for 10 minutes it spikes co2 to over 2000 ppm….so definately open the door!!!!!

Plants actually burn with levels over 2500…..

 

[cmeg1]

I still want to make some Zelkova Brooms ……just hoping the seed is fresh……will at least make a flat in August……These were a bit time consuming……but soooo cool.
@Maiden69

 

[cmeg1]

zelkova……..I will get more and guaranteed seed….I will have room now.

These need to be taller and also take my time and wrap without leaves.

 

[19Mateo83]

FIRST FLOOD W/NUTRIENT FOR THE PINE SEEDLING PRE-CUTTINGS.

Aiming for very low ec at first ,about .2 EC,so these will sprout quick.The usual balanced 1:1 motherplant formula for cuttings and propogation.

I will probably give them light quite strongly so they will harden up quickly…….seems pines are fine since they are not growing so much anyways as far as photosynthetic energy reserves go.Not in a seedlling anyways.

Probably 1500 or so seedlings……Then seedling cuttings.
If I prepare properly I will have at least a 90% success rate of fully rooted and radial roots.

The half rooted ones I will keep for kabudachi style projects.

Very excited for this.View attachment 486184View attachment 486185View attachment 486186View attachment 486187View attachment 486188

I’m curious how bald cypresses would do with your methods. Those Zelkova are looking incredible Curt!

 

[Maiden69]

Korean Hornbeam -f coreana -- Possibly Trident Maple.

If you could get some Miyasama trident that would be great... I think this is one of those cultivars that some people want and are hard to find. Matt O stock used to sell out quickly, but I guess demand (and perhaps difficulty propagating) has raised the price, so they are selling slowly. MrMaple's sell out within a day of posting, but I think theirs are grafted. Also, the rough bark trident, Brent's stock sells out very quickly too.

I would love to give Korean hornbeam a try.

Have you considered cork bark elms? Either the Seiju or Yatsubusa? Those would sell well as well, I'm not a fan of the other dwarfs, too temperamental for my taste. My seiju is a rapid grower, much faster than what Brent states on his website. I'm making some layers this weekend if I can get some extra time.

Bald cypress, as @19Mateo83 mentioned. Very easy to propagate from seed, but if you do this I would recommend a much wider than your usual rockwool block. The roots on this thing need to elongate a little bit in order to create a decent flare at the bottom on a small-scale tree. I'm waiting for the seedlings I planted this spring to start running so I can do some experimentation with them. Also, I think someone mentioned sourcing seeds from the southern species as those tolerate hotter climates better.

Gingko, chi-chi's, please.

 

[cmeg1]

If you could get some Miyasama trident that would be great... I think this is one of those cultivars that some people want and are hard to find. Matt O stock used to sell out quickly, but I guess demand (and perhaps difficulty propagating) has raised the price, so they are selling slowly. MrMaple's sell out within a day of posting, but I think theirs are grafted. Also, the rough bark trident, Brent's stock sells out very quickly too.

I would love to give Korean hornbeam a try.

Have you considered cork bark elms? Either the Seiju or Yatsubusa? Those would sell well as well, I'm not a fan of the other dwarfs, too temperamental for my taste. My seiju is a rapid grower, much faster than what Brent states on his website. I'm making some layers this weekend if I can get some extra time.

Bald cypress, as @19Mateo83 mentioned. Very easy to propagate from seed, but if you do this I would recommend a much wider than your usual rockwool block. The roots on this thing need to elongate a little bit in order to create a decent flare at the bottom on a small-scale tree. I'm waiting for the seedlings I planted this spring to start running so I can do some experimentation with them. Also, I think someone mentioned sourcing seeds from the southern species as those tolerate hotter climates better.

Gingko, chi-chi's, please.

This is very interesting……..definately some propogation in order.
I have to admit….I need to practice propogation tech of Motherplants.I used to seedling cuttings and Air-layering technique.I can think it over.

Today as a matter of fact!!

 

[cmeg1]

A CROP OF ZELKOVA

I think a large crop of these will be fun.Start in August all the way through to Spring 2024.Could make some traditional long trunk Broom also…..Ideally trunks over 7” long…..the ones in the pictures were way to short…..

All air-layered.

Also a flat of korean Hornbeam kabudachi and Magnolia Stellata Kabudachi……since seeds are germinating.

 

[Doogliebop]

I have some pre stratified bald cypress seeds I honestly don't need. I have a nursery can chocked full of seedlings and i already don't know what to do with them, if cmeg is interested in the seeds.

 

[cmeg1]

I have some pre stratified bald cypress seeds I honestly don't need. I have a nursery can chocked full of seedlings and i already don't know what to do with them, if cmeg is interested in the seeds.

I’ll pm you

 

[cmeg1]

DEFOLIATED THE SIBERIAN ELM

This is getting nice and full despite only being 16 months old.
This is the first defoliation ever.I just wanted to see some nice green leaves.
I decided to place it in the growhouse with extra warmth and co2.
Placed directly into some strong light to get all the buds poppin’ in the interior too.
I doubt I will defoliate anymore this season.

I will keep in the growhouse to utilize the co2 fertilization for a few weeks then bring outdoors again for the 2nd time this season.

Then it can get somewhat bushy outdoors on the grow bench and let rest awhile in a triangle shape for energy builds and trunk building.

I will get a better picture as the light was so bright in the growhouse it was difficult to really show any particular qualities of the tree as I would’ve liked to.

These grow so nicely I would actually like to start a bunch of seedlings and then just have a bunch of ground layered trunks for sale.
I will be sure to do that in August when I start a 2nd indoor crop and ground layer sometime in winter or early Spring when the trunks are 3/4”…..then just chop them back and have for sale.The resulting trunk flares should be very nice.I only layered this one while it was quite thin yet……..a larger one will be awesome.

 

[cmeg1]

THE TRUNK IS COOL LOOKING ALREADY

This is why I want to grow a crop of ground-layers in the growhouse

 

[cmeg1]

TWIGGINESS

I have a broken ph meter till’ tuesday.

My remedy is to turn lights off at about 72f till’ then……is not worth it.

Wish I had a better picture,but I am amazed by the twigginess of the Siberian Elm.

A little board…..cannot wait to work wednesday.

 

[cmeg1]

FINALLY GOT THE LIGHTS ON AGAIN.


I could not wait for the new ph meter……the broken was was guestimated for acuracy by dipling in some calibration solution and I used a little baking soda for adjustment of the solution.

I get the good stuff tomorrow so this will do….

Captivated by the branching…..I start a new job wednesday and nothing to do.

This is bigtime ramified and somewhat gnarly for only being a year and a half!!
I like a good, basic clip and grow bonsai.

The extended growing season at its best for a deciduous.

 

[cmeg1]

FINALLY GETTING SOME CUTTINGS GOING


Plenty more JBP seedling cuttings on the way.
Did 210.The rest of the seedlings need grown a little more before cutting.

Excited.
No heat mat……just keeping the growhouse at about 80degrees F.
Should be ready by August.

 

[cmeg1]

FOLIAR FEEDING fulvic acid /kelp 5:2

I actually did not have any co2,so just made sure these were slow grown with low ec and also administered quite alot of the kelp foliar feed.

They will root just the same.The secret is a 1:1 N-K ratio fertilizer as any one higher than the other will impede rooting……also make cuttings at the end of the light cycle.

 

[Maiden69]

I did my first foliar feeding with 5:2 Saturday. I use it when fertilizing as a drench, but this will be my first experience with it as a foliar feed. Hopefully I can get a few more before doing some candle cutting and hard pruning at the end of June on my JBP. I also sprayed everything I have... LOL, so will see how they do.

 

[cmeg1]

I did my first foliar feeding with 5:2 Saturday. I use it when fertilizing as a drench, but this will be my first experience with it as a foliar feed. Hopefully I can get a few more before doing some candle cutting and hard pruning at the end of June on my JBP. I also sprayed everything I have... LOL, so will see how they do.

Its incredible as a foliaar feed…….especially on natural prolific budding species……has been reported to actually bring photosynthesis up to levels of actually recieving a few more hours of Sun……..NO MORE THAN ONCE A WEEK OR WILL BURN……..THE SAY THIS IS ACTUALLY FROM THE HEAT GENERATED FROM THE EXTRA CELL DIVISION!!!! @Maiden69

Also makes a natural antibiotic effect in the plants at this ratio…….orange type fulvic is a nutrient transporter into cells……the black humic acid is a holder of nutriens at the root level to stop them washing away……..either is used for a specific effect……definately fulvic on foliar feeding……..although a very light anount say…..1/32 tsp per gallon of the black type for a leaf wash…….best with a pure water for leaf washing…..

 

[Maiden69]

@cmeg1 this time I divided the humic/fulvic at half dose. I will use only fulvic this weekend. Do you add any yucca to the foliar feed? I usually add it for the root drench. Right now I can say that the junipers are reacting faster than the pines, the "parsoni" (I think it is a parsoni) that I repotted this spring is showing new green growth on almost every tip, and the torulosa air-layer that was kinda stagnant and blah looks healthier. I'm probably going to do the hard cut on the pines this weekend, none is in refinement at this time, just looking for back budding so I can start selecting ramification and possibly new leaders.