ever seen a Tabernanthe iboga, Virola elongata or such as bonsai

[tantric]

these are trees that contain powerful psychedelics. marijuana 'bonsai' is just tacky, but these are sacred trees with ancient histories. i once ordered some Voacanga africana seeds but i couldn't get them to sprout. some of the datura-type trees in the tropics also have magnificent blooms. mind you, there's no use in the world trying to extract anything from a bonsai, its just a statement and/or plant shrine.

 

[tantric]

btw, i'm just considering a theme for my long term plans, things that are personal to me. ethnobotanical trees just seems natural - probably starting with camellia sinensis and a coffea, maybe liberica if i could get it.

 

[Anthony]

Malpighia e. fruit with very high vit.c.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[tantric]

oh, come on. if you want a sacred tree, a source of spiritual power/ki, then well, 'entheogen' - 'creating the god within'. a collection of entheogenic bonsai would be an accomplishment. it's not like you're gonna grind up your tree and get high, it's spiritual. it bugs me that tea and coffee work but not chocolate - i'd like to have them as a trio, maybe a maiden/mother/crone theme. there are several trees used in ayahausca production in south america. but also, incense trees, like copal (Hymeaea), sandalwood (Santalum), frankincense (Boswellia sacra) and myrhh (you know already). it'd just be an interesting theme - i was kinda brainstorming seeds to order.. hmm, guess that'll be for my advanced project, after i learn to crawl. ..

 

[rockm]

Why reinvent the wheel with obscure, hard to get species that probably won't work for bonsai very well.
Entheogenic plants have long been used as bonsai.

the obvious ones:
Bo Tree--Ficus religiosa (been used for bonsai for quite some time.)
Myrtle Communis (ditto). If you're unfamiliar with the entheogenic bona fides with this species. Look up Roman empire and Jesus.
Olive (Olea Europa) is extremely common bonsai material, especially in Europe where they use ancient stumps as starting stock.
Cedar of Lebanon (Cedrus Libani) is also not uncommon as bonsai material.
Apple trees are common as bonsai also.
Coca bonsai is not unheard of in South America and makes an actual broadleafed bonsai, unlike the sad looking cannabis crappola that passes for "hey dude that's cool" stoner bonsai.

 

[rockm]

Also may not have the hallucinogenic theme you're going for, but it's been used as a drug for a very long time and makes EXTREMELY good bonsai.

Yaupon Holly (Ilex vomitoria) commonly used as an emetic by native North Americans in purification rituals.

 

[tantric]

Ilex vomitoria, the Black Drink of the muscogee. yep, apparently it had so much caffeine they vomited, or else it was just a ritual, but essential to all seminole/muscogee peoples. that would be perfect, but it would have to be wild collected (i'm in the wrong half of GA, but i do have a car).

as for the ones that have been done - i'd be honored to have a bodhi tree, but it's not an entheogen. an entheogen isn't the same as a sacred plant, nor an ethnobotanical. the incense trees are stretching the definition, actually, but you do breathe the smoke while seeking an altered state of mind. europe is very poor in such species, south america is loaded. entheogens are plant teachers - plants that transmit wisdom by inducing an altered state of mind, chemical communication. hmm - if you will, just read this article about Tabernanthe iboga and the Bwiti religion.

but there's more than one way plants teach us. i want to learn these trees, grow them from seeds. and honestly, i still totally fail to get the appeal of doing what has been done before. as a learning exercise, sure, but then...?

 

[Anthony]

Brother-in-law grew up in the jungle, and lived with many trees.
Most of our vegetation is Amazonian, so the leaves are at 3' and branching is sparse.
The silk cotton is to the Mayans, the tree of life - correct ? - but does not lend to being small well.
We have a swamp tree, that is related to the coca plant, and you can tell when you get the scent of the roots being cut.

The various daturas, don't like being cut.

If you sit quietly with any tree, and focus, the mind will do the rest.
His trees allow for his mind to wander and create images of Imaginative oil paintings, which is how the Ancient Chinese Scholars used the early tree Penjing.
I wish you well on your journey.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[M. Frary]

Where I'm from there is no such thing as a sacred tree. Sooner or later they all get turned into mulched or cut into logs for other purposes.
Will any of these trees actually be bonsai with small leaves? Will they convey a feeling of age and struggle.
Or will they be just bushes in buckets. Just because a tree or plant can be put into a bonsai pot doesn't make it a bonsai. I can jam an Eastern White pine or red maple into a pot and call it a bonsai but it will never be one in the true sense of the word. The foliage will always be too coarse for either of them to be a bonsai. If the trees you suggest can be made to get small foliage and tight internodes then you may have a bonsai that gets you buzzed. If not all you really have is a bush in a bucket.
Nothings sacred.

 

[Djtommy]

Maybe you can make an oak as bonsai and grow a mistletoe on it..
Druids used them, one famous druid could make a powerfull drink from it.
His name is getafix, look it up if you dont know

 

[M. Frary]

I'm in Michigan. Mr. Getafix has a dispensery a couple miles down the road.

 

[rockm]

Mistletoe is a parasite that is very bad to have on bonsai. Collected oaks and cedar elms from Texas sometimes have mistletoe that has to be killed off. The mistletoe's support system (roots of a sort) is closely attached to the host tree and can cause damage.

FWIW, in Druid mythology, mistletoe was considered the testes of the oak and associated with fertility and power. Severing mistletoe from the host oak conveyed power. The "neutering" ceremony was performed in winter, at a time when trees and life seemed dead. That myth continues on in the form of the tradition of kissing under the mistletoe at Christmas. I may be a little inaccurate here, but I'm drawing on a course I took in college on paganism and the occult. (Public liberal arts colleges are greatly missed these days ;-))

 

[M. Frary]

Mistletoe is a parasite that is very bad to have on bonsai. Collected oaks and cedar elms from Texas sometimes have mistletoe that has to be killed off. The mistletoe's support system (roots of a sort) is closely attached to the host tree and can cause damage.

FWIW, in Druid mythology, mistletoe was considered the testes of the oak and associated with fertility and power. Severing mistletoe from the host oak conveyed power. The "nuetering" ceremony was performed in winter, at a time when trees and life seemed dead. That myth continues on in the form of the tradition of kissing under the mistletoe at Christmas. I may be a little inaccurate here, but I'm drawing on a course I took in college on paganism and the occult. (Public liberal arts colleges are greatly missed these days ;-))

So somehow people people came up with kissing under an oaks nuts. I guess I won't be hanging that from my hat brim this Christmas. Oak balls in my eyes! Jingle bells?

 

[rockm]

You REALLY don't want to know about why you hang balls on the Christmas tree...

 

[M. Frary]

You REALLY don't want to know about why you hang balls on the Christmas tree...

Since the last tidbit of information you tossed out no I dont. I have a very vivid and sick imagination so the conclusions I'm reaching now aren't coming up all holiday themed.

 

[rockm]

Holidays are a relative thing. The druids killed a few people during the mistletoe ceremony and holiday. It was a holiday for the killers, notsomuch for the victims.

 

[M. Frary]

Holidays are a relative thing. The druids killed a few people during the mistletoe ceremony and holiday. It was a holiday for the killers, notsomuch for the victims.

My ancestors the Vikings also sacrificed people to the Gods. The victims actually volunteered for the privilege. I can't pronounce the name of the holiday but it was supposed to be a good time. The Vikings of old were a fun loving bunch of guys.

 

[Anthony]

K's grandfather was from the UK, and a practising Druid, he had abilities, especially over animals.

A clear mind gathers visual information, and the mind mixes it up, as imagination,
A dulled mind would feed on itself.
We have many Rastas down here [ read - piper ] not too inventive or bright.

That said the Chinese do grow a red sandalwood with small leaves, see the work of Wu Yee Sun.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[tantric]

My ancestors the Vikings also sacrificed people to the Gods. The victims actually volunteered for the privilege. I can't pronounce the name of the holiday but it was supposed to be a good time. The Vikings of old were a fun loving bunch of guys.

because the entheogenic trees will be experimental and new, they should have the most classic forms possible and i will train them from seeds. when i was in prison, i had a brief stay at the facility where they execute people. on one hallway there was a mural of a screaming american eagle perched on a tree - it took me a minute, then i recognized it as a gallows tree - mostly dead with one main branch at 90degrees from the trunk. i honestly thought i was going to vomit when i saw it, from terror and rage and things i don't have names for. but if i knew where such a tree was, i'd air layer it in a hot minute.