Colorado’s Literati Ponderosa Pine

[Colorado]

Does getting shorter needles require 2nd and 3rd branching with shorter internodes and a root reduction before the tapering off effect of fertilizer coupled with needle plucking? Or does 2nd and 3rd branching not matter? What does sound literature recommend for shorter needles on Pines/Ponderosa Pines? I thought it was pretty much the same across the board.

Edit:

Youtube , Ryan Neil, "Pines" is the lecture that comes to mind. He talks about getting shorter needles on these pines. I think you will accomplish shorter needles if you follow the regiment. Good luck!

Thanks, but I am familiar with his recommendations and that regiment is what I’ve been doing (see above).

Actually getting the shorter needles is much easier said than done

 

[Colorado]

Just my observation and comments: In the mountains, when a Ponderosa is growing short needles it is also not making candles. The growing tips will be adding only 2 or three needle bundles per tip per season. That tree is surviving but just barely. Your tree looks healthy and has a lovely form. I'd like shorter needles on my Ponderosas, but I won't risk their health to get there.
I'd like to find a copy of the Larry Jackel book too.

Good points!

At some point I think we just have to accept the species for what it is. All species have pros and challenges. It’s all part of the fun

 

[Colorado]

What kind of pot would you guys put this tree in?

I’ve thought of putting it in a deeper round, or maybe a deeper rectangle.

Thoughts?

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

What kind of pot would you guys put this tree in?

I’ve thought of putting it in a deeper round, or maybe a deeper rectangle.

Thoughts?

I think the size of the pot looks good. Maybe try to find something more rustic looking to go with the character of the tree. A textured pot, or something more nanban-like.

 

[Colorado]

something more nanban-like.

Oooo I like this idea!

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Thanks, but I am familiar with his recommendations and that regiment is what I’ve been doing (see above).

Actually getting the shorter needles is much easier said than done

Weird, why do you think you’re not getting additional branching and needle reduction then? That’s strange

I’m learning Mugos currently (my first pines) and sometimes it’s mentally hard to process and get the order of operations down but I think I’m getting.

 

[Colorado]

Hell if I know!

I think maybe it just needs more time.

 

[Shogun610]

lol … good job so far ponderosas are tough to reduce hit it’s a native pine we can’t always assume natives will act like black/res or white for other agreeable American or European species… it’s what makes natives unique.. but think a nanban. Smaller pine would work it would also restrict needle size in future too

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Hell if I know!

I think maybe it just needs more time.

I love that answer haha

 

[pandacular]

Does getting shorter needles require 2nd and 3rd branching with shorter internodes and a root reduction before the tapering off effect of fertilizer coupled with needle plucking? Or does 2nd and 3rd branching not matter? What does sound literature recommend for shorter needles on Pines/Ponderosa Pines? I thought it was pretty much the same across the board.

Edit:

Youtube , Ryan Neil, "Pines" is the lecture that comes to mind. He talks about getting shorter needles on these pines. I think you will accomplish shorter needles if you follow the regiment. Good luck!

Ponderosa Pines as Bonsai - Out of Print

In this one-of-a-kind bonsai book Larry Jackel focuses on one of the most beautiful and dramatic trees in North America. The Ponderosa pine (Pinus ponderosa), a rugged, handsome tree that is easily distinguished by its thick plated orangish bark. Old collected Ponderosas pine bonsai are greatly...

stonelantern.com

This is the book for ponderosa pines. Larry Jackel is the curator of the collection at the Denver Botanic Gardens and a living legend of American bonsai. He was kind enough to show me around behind the scenes at the garden today.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Ponderosa Pines as Bonsai - Out of Print

In this one-of-a-kind bonsai book Larry Jackel focuses on one of the most beautiful and dramatic trees in North America. The Ponderosa pine (Pinus ponderosa), a rugged, handsome tree that is easily distinguished by its thick plated orangish bark. Old collected Ponderosas pine bonsai are greatly...

stonelantern.com

This is the book for ponderosa pines. Larry Jackel is the curator of the collection at the Denver Botanic Gardens and a living legend of American bonsai. He was kind enough to show me around behind the scenes at the garden today.

Nice!

 

[Colorado]

Been thinking about changing up the design on this tree. With the current design. The trunk is just so slender and then it’s got a big poof of foliage on top at the end of the line. I’m just not crazy about it.



I’ve been contemplating making a sharp bend at the top to bring the foliage down into a more cohesive composition. Excuse my amateur sketching skills, but I am thinking of something like this:



Feel free to comment with your thoughts!

 

[Hartinez]

Been thinking about changing up the design on this tree. With the current design. The trunk is just so slender and then it’s got a big poof of foliage on top at the end of the line. I’m just not crazy about it.

View attachment 575059

I’ve been contemplating making a sharp bend at the top to bring the foliage down into a more cohesive composition. Excuse my amateur sketching skills, but I am thinking of something like this:

View attachment 575060

Feel free to comment with your thoughts!

I like the sketch, I like the idea. Ultimately though and my biggest gripe with Pondy, is the needles size. With your tree, the needles and foliage mass will always be a blob of green on a small trunk, relative to the needle size that is.

But I also personally like it as is. I bet if you cleaned old needles out and showed a bit more of the branch work on the underside this tree would be less a blob of foliage and more a network of small branches with needle clumps.

 

[coachspinks]

Been thinking about changing up the design on this tree. With the current design. The trunk is just so slender and then it’s got a big poof of foliage on top at the end of the line. I’m just not crazy about it.

View attachment 575059

I’ve been contemplating making a sharp bend at the top to bring the foliage down into a more cohesive composition. Excuse my amateur sketching skills, but I am thinking of something like this:

View attachment 575060

Feel free to comment with your thoughts!

I looked at the tree for a while before looking at your sketch. My thought was to pull it down, exactly like you did in the sketch.

 

[Colorado]

I like the sketch, I like the idea. Ultimately though and my biggest gripe with Pondy, is the needles size. With your tree, the needles and foliage mass will always be a blob of green on a small trunk, relative to the needle size that is.

But I also personally like it as is. I bet if you cleaned old needles out and showed a bit more of the branch work on the underside this tree would be less a blob of foliage and more a network of small branches with needle clumps.

Yeah, I can understand that gripe. Pondys are really suited to be much larger trees than this one. I’ve also thought about just selling the tree but I don’t think I want to let go of it just yet haha

 

[Dav4]

How do you think the tree might look without that foliage pad farthest left? If the portion of trunk behind it has the character of lower portions of the trunk, I think that would reduce the weight of the canopy and create some imbalance and tension. Just a thought.

 

[Hartinez]

Hey T Money! Took your input, @Dav4 input and some ideas I had and did a few mockups for you. number 1 just creates a big angle change, number 2 is playing somewhat on Daves idea, number 3 is the opposite of number 1 and number 4 is I think what you're considering. I have my favorite, but i'm not telling till you say so!!

 

[Dav4]

I like the smaller foliage mass for sure. I'm also a sucker for dropped branches, so....
I'd personally be looking at 2 or 4 as future styling options.

 

[Colorado]

Hey T Money! Took your input, @Dav4 input and some ideas I had and did a few mockups for you. number 1 just creates a big angle change, number 2 is playing somewhat on Daves idea, number 3 is the opposite of number 1 and number 4 is I think what you're considering. I have my favorite, but i'm not telling till you say so!!

View attachment 575115

Thanks bro! I am still leaning towards number 4…especially with a different pot. And maybe try to get a smaller, lighter, airier foliage mass than the virt.

Definitely want to hear your favorite though!

 

[Hartinez]

Thanks bro! I am still leaning towards number 4…especially with a different pot. And maybe try to get a smaller, lighter, airier foliage mass than the virt.

Definitely want to hear your favorite though!

I like the look of number 1. Adds a bit more drama to the tree and makes the trunk more of a highlight by adding more movement. I just don’t love the upright nature of the trunk in its current state. I was partially inspired by a tree Harry Harrington just styled. Needles were much smaller but I loved the look.