Colorado’s Literati Ponderosa Pine

[Colorado]

Looks awesome! I am hoping to get mine like that someday. What resources have you found helpful regarding the care of Ponderosa? I am fairly new to the species and have been reading Larry Jackel's book.

Thank you! I pretty much just follow the Mirai method for ponderosas. I am also a student of Todd Schlafer and he follows the same method. There are lots of great ponderosa materials in the Mirai video library!

Larry is also a top-notch bonsai professional. I don’t know for sure, but I’d wager that Larry has probably been doing bonsai with ponderosas for longer than Ryan and Todd have been doing bonsai combined. However, I have to confess that I haven’t read Larry’s book. I did have a nice discussion with him at a club meeting a few months ago about pine shoot tip moths, though.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Larry Jackel's book.

First visit with Ryan 2014 Ryan said pretty much Larry does Ponderosa all wrong! Ryan Neil favorite tree Ponderosa. He is the Ponderosa guru.

 

[Colorado]

First visit with Ryan 2014 Ryan said pretty much Larry does Ponderosa all wrong! Ryan Neil favorite tree Ponderosa. He is the Ponderosa guru.

Haha. I am not sure that I believe Ryan would use those particular words about a fellow bonsai professional .

But I agree that Ryan is a ponderosa guru! I prefer to keep an open mind and consider information from multiple sources. Yes, Ryan has some wonderful ponderosas. So does Larry.

For those that are not aware, Larry Jackal is the curator of the Denver Botanic Gardens Bonsai Collection. If you haven’t visited the collection, there are some very high level bonsai that exist under Larry’s care. He is a very experienced bonsai professional. He’s also a really great guy. Very generous with his time and his knowledge. This thread has reminded me that I really want to read his book!

 

[Potawatomi13]

Haha. I am not sure that I believe Ryan would use those particular words about a fellow bonsai professional .

But I agree that Ryan is a ponderosa guru! I prefer to keep an open mind and consider information from multiple sources. Yes, Ryan has some wonderful ponderosas. So does Larry.

For those that are not aware, Larry Jackal is the curator of the Denver Botanic Gardens Bonsai Collection. If you haven’t visited the collection, there are some very high level bonsai that exist under Larry’s care. He is a very experienced bonsai professional. He’s also a really great guy. Very generous with his time and his knowledge. This thread has reminded me that I really want to read his book!

Actual words nearly exactly that or at least amounted to it. As remembered 9 years later. As I had read it asked Ryan about it. From something Larry said in book suspect he changed personal technique somewhat after writing. You already have the book?

 

[Colorado]

Actual words nearly exactly that or at least amounted to it. As remembered 9 years later. As I had read it asked Ryan about it. From something Larry said in book suspect he changed personal technique somewhat after writing. You already have the book?

No, I don’t have the book. My experience is based on talking and working a bit with Larry. I just went on Google and Amazon to try to buy a copy, but it appears to be sold out everywhere! And no e-book available.

I’d buy your copy from you if you’re interested in selling it!

 

[jindog]

No, I don’t have the book. My experience is based on talking and working a bit with Larry. I just went on Google and Amazon to try to buy a copy, but it appears to be sold out everywhere! And no e-book available.

I’d buy your copy from you if you’re interested in selling it!

I could not find a copy until the Midwest show. I saw it on the shelf and grabbed it immediately. It has some interesting information. One thing to point out is that Larry suggests that it is possible to repot ponderosas in the late summer/early fall. I had no clue!

 

[Potawatomi13]

No, I don’t have the book. My experience is based on talking and working a bit with Larry. I just went on Google and Amazon to try to buy a copy, but it appears to be sold out everywhere! And no e-book available.

I’d buy your copy from you if you’re interested in selling it!

At first was why I asked. However after looking at for first time in years might just keep for pictures in it.

 

[Colorado]

At first was why I asked. However after looking at for first time in years might just keep for pictures in it.

Haha! I can’t blame you!

Maybe I’ll just ask Larry next time I see him if he has any extra copies I could purchase.

 

[Colorado]

I could not find a copy until the Midwest show. I saw it on the shelf and grabbed it immediately. It has some interesting information. One thing to point out is that Larry suggests that it is possible to repot ponderosas in the late summer/early fall. I had no clue!

Interesting - I was not aware of that! I was just at a repotting workshop at the Denver Botanic Gardens this spring that he was hosting. So I’m pretty sure that he does repot most trees in the spring.

He also is a big proponent for turface. It seems like he loves the stuff. Personally I’ve never used it and don’t really intend to try it.

However, I must say that someone brought a pinion pine to the repotting workshop. It was potted in turface and the box was PACKED with great looking roots. Larry made sure to point that out

 

[Colorado]

Enjoying a gentle snow shower this morning. I took all the wire off in late summer. It had bitten in pretty hard in some spots so I wanted to give it the fall to start to heal those areas. I am planning to wire it in the spring.

I am really looking forward to that! I’m planning to compact the apex and bring those lower branches up more to give it a more alpine and ancient vibe

 

[Colorado]

Awakening from the winter slumber!


Moss is looking great after spending most of the winter under a blanket of snow. Sam Miller container!

 

[Colorado]

I tinkered with the branches a little bit to insinuate a more high-alpine aesthetic. Mountain Harebell accent for scale



Buds are looking nice and healthy. I think this will be the 4th growing season in the container, hoping the needles are a little shorter this year. We shall see!

 

[pictorangelicvs]

Gorgeous tree. Ponderosas have such beautiful and unique character to their bark and a sinewy musculature to the shape of their trunks. Love the graceful curves and spiral upwards after the first sharp bend and then the gentle swoop of the branches. The slight bow outwards near the base of ponderosa needles I really like too. Thank you for sharing with us it’s progression.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

 

[Colorado]

Gorgeous tree. Ponderosas have such beautiful and unique character to their bark and a sinewy musculature to the shape of their trunks. Love the graceful curves and spiral upwards after the first sharp bend and then the gentle swoop of the branches. The slight bow outwards near the base of ponderosa needles I really like too. Thank you for sharing with us it’s progression.

Thanks, Julien! I really love ponderosa too. In addition to everything you’ve said, they’re also incredibly cold hardy and sun tolerant too. And that bark…..

 

[penumbra]

You have made some bold moves with the development of this tree, and honestly, I couldn't always see where you were going with it. But you are certainly on a good path my friend,

 

[Colorado]

You have made some bold moves with the development of this tree, and honestly, I couldn't always see where you were going with it. But you are certainly on a good path my friend,

To be honest, I’m not sure I really know where it’s going either . I’ve found this tree to be really tough, as it’s just not really big enough for any sense of scale. I mean, the needles are longer than the trunk is thick

The needles…I’ve tried everything to get them shorter. I barely fertilize it in the spring and summer. It’s been in this really small container for 4 growing seasons now. Still, needles are about the same as ever! lol.

Here’s a current pic:


This morning, I noticed an area of deadwood/shari on the trunk where the bark was falling off. Upon closer inspection, looks like this deadwood runs way down the trunk. I will have to explore that further some other time. I’m happy to have more deadwood on this tree.



Found a little friend hangin out!



I think I’ll probably leave it in that pot for another year. Maybe the needles will be shorter next year

 

[pandacular]

The needles…I’ve tried everything to get them shorter. I barely fertilize it in the spring and summer. It’s been in this really small container for 4 growing seasons now. Still, needles are about the same as ever! lol.

This is something I’m definitely interested in as well. It seems we have a long way to go to learn how to shorten pondo needles. I think one path that needs exploring (and this is true of all of our native pines and junipers, imo) is finding excellent genetic for grafting stock. In Japan, they’ve already done this, and it’s incredibly rare to find ungrafted yamadori in shows. There are likely also needle reduction techniques yet to be discovered as well.

Personally, I don’t mind the long needle on a literati feel tree. It has a bold informality that I really like, and I think ponderosae are uniquely well suited to literati because of that.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Does getting shorter needles require 2nd and 3rd branching with shorter internodes and a root reduction before the tapering off effect of fertilizer coupled with needle plucking? Or does 2nd and 3rd branching not matter? What does sound literature recommend for shorter needles on Pines/Ponderosa Pines? I thought it was pretty much the same across the board.

Edit:

Youtube , Ryan Neil, "Pines" is the lecture that comes to mind. He talks about getting shorter needles on these pines. I think you will accomplish shorter needles if you follow the regiment. Good luck!

 

[Flowerhouse]

The needles…I’ve tried everything to get them shorter. I barely fertilize it in the spring and summer. It’s been in this really small container for 4 growing seasons now. Still, needles are about the same as ever! lol.

Just my observation and comments: In the mountains, when a Ponderosa is growing short needles it is also not making candles. The growing tips will be adding only 2 or three needle bundles per tip per season. That tree is surviving but just barely. Your tree looks healthy and has a lovely form. I'd like shorter needles on my Ponderosas, but I won't risk their health to get there.
I'd like to find a copy of the Larry Jackel book too.