Collecting Jack Pines

[M. Frary]

I'm just discovering this thread and obviously way behind, but it's a Kirtland's Warbler. People travel from all over the world to get to your backyard to see those little guys. I was in Saginaw years ago for work and took an extra day to drive up there to look for them, but I was a week or so too early and they hadn't returned from migration yet.

I know all about the birds. I don't know if I've ever seen one myself.

The one Mike gave me has hardened off. I think I will wait a year or two to repot the tree. I am not sure when it was collected so I will not push it but it looks great.

I collected that last spring Vance. Along with 4 others. Only yours and the big one I have survived. This year I collected 4 in the spring. Only one is making it for sure. Another is just hanging in there. I'm going to try a few in a couple weeks. Along with a few Scots pine. See how they take collection in summer.

 

[Vance Wood]

I am thinking that trees like these should be done in the Summer. I do Scots Pine in the Summer all of the time just like Mugos.

 

[sorce]

The BSD's are out....

Jacking Collected Pines!

Sorce

 

[PiñonJ]

There is an endangered bird who nests only in jack pine forests 7' to 15' tall. Only only in one place in the world. I live smack dab in the middle of it.

Holy cow, you have 7' - 15' tall birds where you live?! Sounds more like a dinosaur!

 

[ValorG]

I dont know if this was mentioned before but have you read about the 1 or 2 year method? Basically you cut up to half of the surface roots at one time, put moss or water retaining soil and fertilizer around those newly cut roots. New roots should grow and stay in that area. The process can be repeated to the other half next year after this process or you can just dig the tree up the next year if sufficient feeder roots have grown to sustain the tree.

 

[BonsaiButler]

It's really amazing what you can do if you know what's possible

W

What the hell. That's unbelievable!

 

[M. Frary]

I dont know if this was mentioned before but have you read about the 1 or 2 year method? Basically you cut up to half of the surface roots at one time, put moss or water retaining soil and fertilizer around those newly cut roots. New roots should grow and stay in that area. The process can be repeated to the other half next year after this process or you can just dig the tree up the next year if sufficient feeder roots have grown to sustain the tree.

I dig and go.

 

[Vance Wood]

I think a good deal of the problem with Jack Pine is the tendency to grow in very sandy soil. The roots have the freedom to go wherever they want in the search for moisture. Makes for very long and ranging roots that have to be chased not cut. In my early years when it was still possible to collect the Pygmy Cypress on Point Reyes Peninsula we found them impossible to dig up. The reason: The substrate below the first four to six inches was so alkaline nothing could grow in it. The Cypress roots would fan out in as many directions as possible and because of this the tree could not be successfully harvested unless you took the time to get under the tree and follow the roots till you got as much of the feeder roots as possible. The old theory of cut along the drip line does not work with a some tree.

 

[Waltron]

I think a good deal of the problem with Jack Pine is the tendency to grow in very sandy soil. The roots have the freedom to go wherever they want in the search for moisture. Makes for very long and ranging roots that have to be chased not cut. In my early years when it was still possible to collect the Pygmy Cypress on Point Reyes Peninsula we found them impossible to dig up. The reason: The substrate below the first four to six inches was so alkaline nothing could grow in it. The Cypress roots would fan out in as many directions as possible and because of this the tree could not be successfully harvested unless you took the time to get under the tree and follow the roots till you got as much of the feeder roots as possible. The old theory of cut along the drip line does not work with a some tree.

Vance,

Mike has much more experience than me, but from my experience this is not a problem, so far. I collected a fairly large fir on memorial weekend, out of the sand, transplanted to the ground, in my yard down in southern Michigan, and its thriving. I feel like the sand is more of a top layer, and a few inches underneath is blacker sand that actually contains the roots, not only shallow, but also fairly compact. I have done this this with white pine and red pine and another fir, in pots and the ground. I have not colleted a jack pine, however, the fir I dug out of the sand was surrounded by jacks so I would infer the collection process would be similar.

 

[M. Frary]

Vance,

Mike has much more experience than me, but from my experience this is not a problem, so far. I collected a fairly large fir on memorial weekend, out of the sand, transplanted to the ground, in my yard down in southern Michigan, and its thriving. I feel like the sand is more of a top layer, and a few inches underneath is blacker sand that actually contains the roots, not only shallow, but also fairly compact. I have done this this with white pine and red pine and another fir, in pots and the ground. I have not colleted a jack pine, however, the fir I dug out of the sand was surrounded by jacks so I would infer the collection process would be similar.

Up here it's sand until you hit China digging.

 

[Vance Wood]

That's because Michigan is for the most part a glacial moraine. Fact being that most of Michigan is what is left of Canada.

 

[Waltron]

Up here it's sand until you hit China digging.

you guys in a drought up there too? dry as hell down here.

 

[M. Frary]

you guys in a drought up there too? dry as hell down here.

It's always dry here. We seem to get most of our precitation in the winter. It rains some but never enough. The fire danger level is very high. No burn permits.

 

[Waltron]

Just noticed rain in the forecast for Friday morning. perfect timing.

 

[M. Frary]

Just noticed rain in the forecast for Friday morning. perfect timing.

Yep. If not you need to get the ground soaked in order for it to hold together. The trees with a lot of weeds around them are the easiest to dig. The roots of the weeds hold the soil together. Then there are the places with that gray green lichen growing on the ground around the trees. That is the worst place to dig here.

 

[Waltron]

good call, I have some of those military surplus gas cans I plan to fill with water and bring in the jeep. I have pumice, grow bags and pre cut boards for boxes ready to go. Nice well water up there too rather than my city water. give them a couple days to rest before heading down back state. I was planning on mixing some turface and fir bark with the pumice.. straight pumice seems to be the trend though... any input there? I dont see why it would effect much since the soil will be primary sand anyhow. I've done the napa sandwhich in the past with success as well..

 

[M. Frary]

good call, I have some of those military surplus gas cans I plan to fill with water and bring in the jeep. I have pumice, grow bags and pre cut boards for boxes ready to go. Nice well water up there too rather than my city water. give them a couple days to rest before heading down back state. I was planning on mixing some turface and fir bark with the pumice.. straight pumice seems to be the trend though... any input there? I dont see why it would effect much since the soil will be primary sand anyhow. I've done the napa sandwhich in the past with success as well..

I put them in buckets with just the native sand. If you have the other stuff on hand you could put it in the bottom of the bucket to fill the void you always seem to get at the bottom. Other than that I try not to fool with the roots too much.

 

[Vance Wood]

Just noticed rain in the forecast for Friday morning. perfect timing.

They have forecast rain at least four times in the last month and a half and all we get is the equivalent of a dog shaking water of its tail.

 

[Timbo]

Hello. I just joined today, find these forums helpful as it seems most sites/forums just peddle the same info (dig all of it up in spring, get a 5 foot root ball and don't collect in sand). I live near some of you in Michigan which is nice the info is not UK or Florida area collecting. I guess a little background info.....I've only been doing bonsai for about a year, started with nursery stuff and then seeds. I decided I might not live to see those get to be 4 inch trunks so I started collecting various kinds of trees last fall and this spring. Most have survived except conifers trees, they seem to do OK in the winter and then dry up in the spring/summer. Spring was a much better success as most are still alive, however I have either a jack pine or a scots pine i'm looking to collect in the next few weeks. This tree is 2 inches or less trunk out in the open with weeds/grass around it, mostly a sand/clay mix with a little dirt mixed in. It was trenched around in fall and last time I checked it was doing OK. Like some of you this tree may not be the best thing out there but it's practice i'm trying to get. I don't have an endless resource so i'm trying to keep down casualties. I may also try taking a Few fir's and hemlocks if it's possible, or just wait till fall. The problem I have with fall collecting is they don't seem to have much time to grow roots up in this tundra of lake effect zone 4. Two tress I had success with in the fall were under 2" trunk Tamaracks....one in a box with bonsai soil is booming while the one in the ground is a bit slower(maybe due to less light).

I think a good deal of the problem with Jack Pine is the tendency to grow in very sandy soil. The roots have the freedom to go wherever they want in the search for moisture. Makes for very long and ranging roots that have to be chased not cut. In my early years when it was still possible to collect the Pygmy Cypress on Point Reyes Peninsula we found them impossible to dig up. The reason: The substrate below the first four to six inches was so alkaline nothing could grow in it. The Cypress roots would fan out in as many directions as possible and because of this the tree could not be successfully harvested unless you took the time to get under the tree and follow the roots till you got as much of the feeder roots as possible. The old theory of cut along the drip line does not work with a some tree.

One question I have is about the root system. What do you guys think is a 'required' amount of rootball? I mean I could dig 5 feet out from the tree, never be able to lift it, and seeing as how it was trenched last fall I wouldn't think there would be many roots outside the trench. Also how do you follow the roots back and not cut them? That would seem near impossible on sand, very time consuming, and I would think in sand you wouldn't have much of a rootball left.

Anyways, still trying to figure this out through trial and error as most of the info elsewhere is conflicting at best.

 

[Waltron]

I collected 2 jack pines last week, both lifted out easy, both still look pretty happy