Climate change

And i'd like all of them to explain me how CO2 produced in excess by human activities and the excess amount observed in atmosphere CAN NOT have an effect on climate. CO2 molecule undisputably have greenhouse properties, it's just a physical property of it. So i'd like to know how man produced CO2 does not have this effect since they claim it's not responsible for the observed change (and while no other phenomenon can explain it) , is it in any way different than naturally produced ones? did they teach them not to behave like any other CO2 molecule before releasing them? Nonsense
 
papymandarin said:
CO2 molecule undisputably have greenhouse properties, it's just a physical property of it.
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The thing is that climate change deniers do not believe in physics, because scientists are all corrupt. There is no causal relation between the greenhouse effect and CO2.

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leatherback said:
The thing is that climate change deniers do not believe in physics, because scientists are all corrupt. There is no causal relation between the greenhouse effect and CO2.

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That guy just said on 60 minutes he doesnt think climate change is a hoax anymore.
He just doesnt want to spend money on fixing it.
What a great man huh?
But the price for a nice wall now,that's a different story.
 
Yea yea yea..
While we are at it, why don't we fix the air quality in Europe, China, India, Pakistan, African countries, etc. It kills far more of us before climate change from CO2 does right now.
 
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well this thread is about climate change and CO2, doesn't mean other pollutions/overexploitation of natural resources from human activity are not also worrying. It's all down to the same basic problem really, our current way of using natural ressources is unsustainable on the long term and dangerous.
 
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papymandarin said:
well this thread is about climate change and CO2, doesn't mean other pollutions/overexploitation of natural resources from human activity are not also worrying
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I know that. However, being on the receiving end of pontificating by fellows from Europe in posts after posts get tiring after a while. I've spent a fair amount of time working on your side of the pond and know well how things are over there.
All I can say is that for myself, with the amount of trees and vegetation I've introduced and keep growing in my land and my energy saving effort, I currently have a negative CO2 foot print. If you want to buy some carbon credit, I've got some to sell. :)
 
ho well, what you considered pontifications were more directed at those making ridiculous claims about scientists and their conspiracy than at you. As far as i'm concerned you are probably the one with who the discussion was the most civil and not based of competely unrealistic arguments, compared to some others
 
papymandarin said:
ho well, what you considered pontifications were more directed at those making ridiculous claims about scientists and their conspiracy than at you. As far as i'm concerned you are probably the one with who the discussion was the most civil and not based of competely unrealistic arguments, compared to some others
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If my better half OKs my plan for solar panels to add to my geothermal systems. We will soon not only CO2 footprint negative but also energy usage negative! The US and state tax credit for solar energy is pretty good.
 
Cajunrider said:
Yea yea yea..
While we are at it, why don't we fix the air quality in Europe, China, India, Pakistan, African countries, etc. It kills far more of us before climate change from CO2 does right now.
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Climate change makes the entire world uninhabitable, it's not the same as some local smog. Pretty much all other problems are not as important as climate change, well maybe a meteor heading for earth is more important, but we cannot stop those.
 
papymandarin said:
they don't realize it will cost much more to do nothing about it.....
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Unfortunately it won't cost many of them anything, but it will cost their children and future generations a lot. That's the problem, it's easy to kick the can down the road like it's been done for generations.

The world should no longer look toward the US for leadership on this or any other science related issue, really. We are going backwards as a society.
 
Cypress187 said:
Climate change makes the entire world uninhabitable, it's not the same as some local smog. Pretty much all other problems are not as important as climate change, well maybe a meteor heading for earth is more important, but we cannot stop those.
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Sure the climate will change has it has multiple times in the history of the earth. Perhaps someday mankind will perish as had the dinosaurs and countless other species over the millennia. What I am not sure of is what your proposal of changes can do to stop or even slow whatever change may come. In the meantime I'm just going to do whatever I can in my circle of influence and control to pollute less, to use less energy. All I will do is to make the little part of the world where I am cleaner and better. I will and have gladly shown others what to do in their control. I'm not going to demand others to do more than what I do. I don't know their circumstances, their capability, and and financial limits.
 
Cajunrider said:
Sure the climate will change has it has multiple times in the history of the earth.
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The current climate change (anthropogenic climate change) is entirely caused by human emissions by burning old dinosaur bones, it's not a natural change in the climate.
 
Cypress187 said:
The current climate change (anthropogenic climate change) is entirely caused by human emissions by burning old dinosaur bones, it's not a natural change in the climate.
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"Old dinosaur bones"!!!! That alone tells me much. There is no need for further debate. Bye. I'm going to quit debating climate change in a bonsai forum.

Bonsai On!!!!
 
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papymandarin said:
Cypress i hope you are joking? lol oil derives from fossil organic matters but not dinosaur bones, can't believe my eyes
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I got my information from this info graphic:
Oil.jpg
 
This whole debate on climate change is really raising the temperature on this forum, i'm not sure I can handle this climate of hostility.
 
papymandarin said:
as always with science denialists of any kind, always the same flawed arguments that were debunked for a long time over and over again , it's boringly repetitive....

what you do is exactly like saying you know better about bonsai than all all bonsai masters all over the word. that's ridiculous
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Good come back!
 
papymandarin said:
i pick one (i'm not going to do al the work for al arguemnts, info is everywhere to expain how all these points are just wrong) just to show how dishonest such positions are, the "once consensus about the earth being flat", you just forget to mention that this consensus was a religious-belief one from an era where science as we know it was not even existing and people that were daring claim the earth was not flat were judged as heretics.... you are actually just showing how mixing science with religious belief was detrimental to the progress of knowledge
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You warmists have exchanged Christianity for climate change. It IS the new religion. Some people just need to believe that the end of the world will come if we don't repent in some way. I'm an atheist and I I'm not a believer like you. Try it!
 
leatherback said:
And once again you are just shouting stufgf without any clue of reality. Really. Keep out of the discussion if you are not even willing to check your own misinformed claims. You sound like a baby not getting its way. Unless of course the Australian Bureau of Meteorology is just making there data up, which you will probably claim.


Australia is getting warmer, ALSO if you take the 30-ies in account. So yeah, Australia is now about 1.5C warmer than it was in the thirties when it was very hot.
View attachment 213501

If you look at the temperature, you see that a larger part of the country reaches the highest temperature class
View attachment 213502

If you look at rainfall you see that an ever increasing part of the country receives the highest level of rainfall
View attachment 213503

Putting the whole thing together:


You see clear increases in rainfall intensity and temperature over a period of 100 years. In response to this, we see that fruitflies change (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/308/5722/691), butterflies are modifying behaviour (http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/03/09/rsbl.2010.0053) and bird sizes are changing (http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1674/3845.article-info)

So yeah, we are talking climate, and not individual events..

Maybe it is time to, you know..
View attachment 213504
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The first 2 graphs are complete made up trash. The BOM has been fudging those figures. They even had a policy which was recently exposed to not record temperatures below -5C (I think it was)
Current surface temperature data is completely unreliable garbage and should be dismissed out of hand for a number of reasons. There's no way on earth those are accurate. The heat of the thirties has been completely removed. The 70's where much cooler than the 30's. I old enough to remember scientists saying they were concerned of another coming ice age ice age during that time.
The only credible temp data sets are balloon and satellite. See below.
As you can see there was a trend upward from the seventies. 98/99, 2010/11, 2016/17 were ENSO years. The trend from the last el nino is downward. This is normal. If you look at the period from 2002 to 2015 and disregard el nino in 2010/11 there is precisely ZERO rise in temperature during that time period. THAT'S RIGHT, ZERTO TEMP RISE FOR A DECADE AND A HLAF WHILE THE CO2 CONTINUED TO RISE UNABATED. After the massive 98/99 el nino, there was a jump in average temps of about 0.2 degrees C. (mind you to see 0.2 degrees on your thermometer you would need a microscope) It is likely that this jump of 0.2 degrees is latent heat given off by millions of cubic miles of ocean.
AS I mentioned, the trend has been down since 2016/17 and unless we have another EN it will continue down. Satellite data started in the very late seventies but as you can see the temps are coming from a low temp cold period in the 1970's. It's all there for you to see. This is the true unadjusted world temp data from 79 to 2018 which no-one disputes.

std.GIF

Going back further, we can see here the massive heat of the thirties with a sharp decline all the way down to the 70's. This is for the northern hem. It was world wide.

thirties2.GIF


Here is a graph showing the hot days in the US since 1895.

thirties.GIF

So, as you can see there is nothing much to panic about with the current temperatures. Your claim that Australia is 1.5 degrees C hotter now than the 30's is contemptible nonsense. Take a deep breath, ditch your new religion and stop worrying about the climate.
 
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